1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,180 If you just kind of come up the default, whatever your poli sci 2 00:00:03,180 --> 00:00:06,900 major and go to law school, where do you get your business training? 3 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:09,270 Where do you get your technology training? 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,590 It's, and it's, it's, that's why we have to redesign education Yes. 5 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:17,970 Of today to build out what, you know, what we dub as the asset of the 6 00:00:17,970 --> 00:00:19,230 future of the lawyer in the future. 7 00:00:19,260 --> 00:00:21,150 Now what we call that is a nimble lawyer. 8 00:00:21,210 --> 00:00:22,560 Somebody needs to be very resilient. 9 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,330 I have an entire slide deck on this. 10 00:00:24,390 --> 00:00:27,390 What we are focused on is how do we develop the lawyer of the future? 11 00:00:27,435 --> 00:00:30,375 Right, and how do we, how do we build those skill sets? 12 00:00:30,404 --> 00:00:34,455 And it's about creation of someone who is client-centric, entrepreneur, but 13 00:00:34,455 --> 00:00:38,445 also entrepreneur to the organization and, and adding back that kind of IP to 14 00:00:38,445 --> 00:00:41,985 the organization that is focused on a different type of client team delivery. 15 00:00:41,985 --> 00:00:44,415 Meaning it might not just be lawyers that are delivering, it could be 16 00:00:44,415 --> 00:00:47,834 consultants within the firm on data privacy and other elements 17 00:00:47,834 --> 00:00:49,394 that need to need to provide that. 18 00:00:49,724 --> 00:00:50,620 It's being a data. 19 00:00:51,315 --> 00:00:55,035 Centric, AI centric human meaning. 20 00:00:55,035 --> 00:00:55,995 Don't be afraid of it. 21 00:00:56,205 --> 00:00:56,865 Work with it. 22 00:00:57,075 --> 00:01:00,075 Make certain that you're not relying upon it, but understanding how it 23 00:01:00,075 --> 00:01:03,645 needs to impact your day to day and how you can work with that to exceed 24 00:01:03,855 --> 00:01:05,295 the expectations of the client. 25 00:01:06,165 --> 00:01:08,740 And, um, someone who's a constant learner. 26 00:01:09,795 --> 00:01:13,185 And, and making certain that you are, you're make, you're making time to 27 00:01:13,185 --> 00:01:16,155 innovate, making time to challenge yourself and, and things like that. 28 00:01:16,155 --> 00:01:19,095 So we're focused on a program that not only will deliver the substantive, the 29 00:01:19,095 --> 00:01:22,815 substantive is easy to be very honest with you, if you want me to teach 30 00:01:22,815 --> 00:01:24,555 someone how to be a tax lawyer, okay. 31 00:01:24,705 --> 00:01:26,175 That really hadn't changed in about 20 years. 32 00:01:26,595 --> 00:01:29,625 It, it really has not, other than certain tax laws that are changing here or there, 33 00:01:29,835 --> 00:01:35,325 generally the practice of law from where I began hasn't changed a ton, but it's how. 34 00:01:35,655 --> 00:01:37,365 We deliver upon those services. 35 00:01:37,365 --> 00:01:42,105 That is just systematically changed, and that's really 36 00:01:42,105 --> 00:01:43,575 where we have an opportunity. 37 00:01:43,650 --> 00:01:45,720 To differentiate ourselves mm-hmm. 38 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,990 In a very unique way, but it's tapping into those human 39 00:01:48,990 --> 00:01:50,340 skills, those business skills. 40 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:53,730 It's the how I think about, I think about innovation as doing things 41 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:56,790 better, and I think doing things better is a, is a function of change 42 00:01:56,790 --> 00:02:01,140 management and it depends on how large of an impact you wanna have. 43 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:01,770 Right. 44 00:02:01,770 --> 00:02:05,970 At Yale, I was building a transformative program that would change how 45 00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:07,470 we did things for 200 years. 46 00:02:07,965 --> 00:02:11,055 It would be the largest program that we had done to date. 47 00:02:11,745 --> 00:02:16,755 Uh, and what was interesting is I had the support of my dean, right? 48 00:02:16,755 --> 00:02:20,325 So I had the most senior person gave me support to do something. 49 00:02:20,775 --> 00:02:24,225 I had very willing and interested students and alumni who knew that 50 00:02:24,225 --> 00:02:28,005 there were gaps and wanted to bridge those gaps and create something better 51 00:02:28,005 --> 00:02:30,525 for themselves and future students. 52 00:02:30,975 --> 00:02:35,475 I had really engaged colleagues across other parts of the university, including 53 00:02:35,475 --> 00:02:37,070 the business, uh, school and the side. 54 00:02:37,755 --> 00:02:42,615 Center for innovation, and so I was able to pull all of those pieces together and 55 00:02:42,615 --> 00:02:47,475 my general resourcefulness and hunger allowed me to leverage my resources along 56 00:02:47,505 --> 00:02:50,895 among the alumni community and among the Yale community to be able to do that 57 00:02:51,105 --> 00:02:53,385 with the political backing of my dean. 58 00:02:53,895 --> 00:02:58,035 That said, it's still really, really difficult to do because change management 59 00:02:58,245 --> 00:03:01,455 is actually in the day to day, right? 60 00:03:01,695 --> 00:03:03,405 It doesn't matter how much money you have. 61 00:03:03,855 --> 00:03:06,675 It actually doesn't matter how much political backing you have, if the 62 00:03:06,675 --> 00:03:11,805 structure itself is impervious to change, it's very difficult to do these things. 63 00:03:11,805 --> 00:03:14,025 So you can create a really great structure. 64 00:03:14,205 --> 00:03:18,765 You can endow a program, but if the people who are in there day-to-day are 65 00:03:18,765 --> 00:03:23,385 not bought into the mission and are not constantly striving and hungry to 66 00:03:23,385 --> 00:03:28,995 improve the processes and review what they're doing in every single iteration. 67 00:03:29,445 --> 00:03:30,465 It won't change. 68 00:03:30,465 --> 00:03:32,325 How is this change going to happen? 69 00:03:32,325 --> 00:03:37,125 How are lawyers going to evolve to shift and expand their workflow in this way? 70 00:03:37,125 --> 00:03:40,905 And it has to be anchored to something that's easy and something that's 71 00:03:40,905 --> 00:03:44,205 appealing and something that's an extension of where we already are. 72 00:03:44,265 --> 00:03:47,265 And the example that I use is around social media, right? 73 00:03:47,265 --> 00:03:50,955 So if you think about Instagram or TikTok, right, or any of the social 74 00:03:50,955 --> 00:03:54,855 media tools that, that we generally use or that, you know, younger generations 75 00:03:54,855 --> 00:03:56,775 are using, no one ever taught. 76 00:03:57,060 --> 00:03:59,340 Those users to use those tools. 77 00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:01,590 And I remember the earlier days of Instagram, right? 78 00:04:01,590 --> 00:04:04,590 Playing around with the filters and sort of learning how to 79 00:04:04,590 --> 00:04:06,359 use this new app on my phone. 80 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:07,590 And it was fun. 81 00:04:07,709 --> 00:04:08,880 It was really engaging. 82 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,660 It was really just interesting to use the seia filter on my photos. 83 00:04:12,660 --> 00:04:13,769 I was like, wow, this is so cool. 84 00:04:13,769 --> 00:04:14,490 It feels like amazing. 85 00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:17,344 A film, like a, you know, like a la a camera or something like that. 86 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,740 It just felt really engaging and I think. 87 00:04:21,810 --> 00:04:27,719 Level of user experience in, that's when you start to engage and that's when you. 88 00:04:31,695 --> 00:04:35,295 You know, go with the flow of the, of the change management more organically. 89 00:04:35,565 --> 00:04:38,655 I think if it's forced on you, if you have to use something and it's 90 00:04:38,655 --> 00:04:42,285 not native, it's not, you know, behaviorally something that's familiar, 91 00:04:42,555 --> 00:04:45,915 that's where you run into the, the biggest change management frictions. 92 00:04:45,915 --> 00:04:50,835 But what I'm excited about now, which I think is really a different era than we've 93 00:04:50,835 --> 00:04:55,005 ever been in before in legal, is that the legal technologies that we're seeing. 94 00:04:55,420 --> 00:05:00,940 Do have that sort of easy and inviting UX look and feel, and they do have that 95 00:05:00,940 --> 00:05:05,560 value add and that proposition, you can do something in a way that's really engaging. 96 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,700 That's cool, that's interesting. 97 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,730 You can summarize things, you can have iterative arguments 98 00:05:09,850 --> 00:05:11,290 that are proposed to you. 99 00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:13,270 You can have counter arguments proposed to you. 100 00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:17,500 You can do things that are quote unquote cool and that are really just interesting. 101 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:21,820 And I think that will be engaging enough for lawyers to give it a try 102 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:23,710 because it's just, it's curiosity. 103 00:05:23,710 --> 00:05:25,010 It's, you know, it's something that we. 104 00:05:25,530 --> 00:05:29,460 We tend to engage with as people, and I think it's no different as lawyers. 105 00:05:29,460 --> 00:05:30,330 Lawyers are people. 106 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,040 I am so excited about the evolutions in, um, data extraction. 107 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:39,300 If I had a quarter for every time a lawyer told me that, like, why can't 108 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:40,650 you just go to my documents and get it? 109 00:05:40,650 --> 00:05:41,700 It's all in my documents. 110 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:44,340 And it's like, I'm not trained to read your documents. 111 00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:49,560 By the time that you can just give it to me, it'll be significantly faster than me 112 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,359 figuring out how to read these documents. 113 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:56,669 Um, and so I think that idea of document extraction is really 114 00:05:56,669 --> 00:05:58,530 gonna revolutionize experience. 115 00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:01,890 Like you're still gonna need the human to kind of give the details that 116 00:06:01,890 --> 00:06:05,370 don't make it into writing that are still equally important, particularly 117 00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:08,640 thinking about like, you know, deal studies and things like that. 118 00:06:09,299 --> 00:06:10,979 Um, but I think that it'll really. 119 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:15,570 Increase the quality and reduce the time that it takes to 120 00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:17,190 get experience information. 121 00:06:17,729 --> 00:06:20,549 You know, right now, if someone would only give me three things, I'd say 122 00:06:20,549 --> 00:06:23,789 give me the location, the client role, and the industry that matters in. 123 00:06:24,479 --> 00:06:27,280 Um, but very soon, if not right now based. 124 00:06:27,705 --> 00:06:30,525 Some of the products on the market can give that to me immediately. 125 00:06:30,914 --> 00:06:33,525 So it's like, all right, what are the next three pieces of data that 126 00:06:33,525 --> 00:06:37,575 I see people asking for and I know can help facilitate, you know, not 127 00:06:37,575 --> 00:06:40,335 just helping our lawyers work more efficiently, but helping our business 128 00:06:40,335 --> 00:06:42,195 departments work more efficiently. 129 00:06:42,195 --> 00:06:44,085 Like, what is that next part? 130 00:06:44,265 --> 00:06:44,534 You know? 131 00:06:44,534 --> 00:06:49,364 And then I look at like AI to help with hygiene and standardization. 132 00:06:49,935 --> 00:06:52,364 You know, the more that we could, you know, cleaning up 133 00:06:52,364 --> 00:06:54,255 records because experience. 134 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,930 It's always gonna be a little messy in the data because you have your nice 135 00:06:57,930 --> 00:07:01,920 structured clean data, but you want users to give you information too. 136 00:07:02,340 --> 00:07:04,980 And users are human and humans are not nice and tidy. 137 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,855 Um, as much as we like, love to try to organize our lives. 138 00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:14,250 We're a little messy, messy, um, we make mistakes and I really think AI is going 139 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:19,590 to help us reduce the amount of human interaction when it comes to data hygiene. 140 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,940 Imagine a topic, AI governance, or ai, it doesn't exist yet. 141 00:07:24,030 --> 00:07:27,240 AI regulation across the states of America, okay? 142 00:07:27,450 --> 00:07:30,420 There's a different sort of set of rules in every single state. 143 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,380 What does that mean? 144 00:07:31,895 --> 00:07:34,025 My company operates in 10 states. 145 00:07:34,025 --> 00:07:37,235 I wanna know the status of the regulation in those 10 states. 146 00:07:37,594 --> 00:07:41,375 Somebody would subscribe to that because that's meaningful, it's experience and 147 00:07:41,375 --> 00:07:44,795 it's clever, and I don't wanna have to pay for the six minute increments of 148 00:07:44,795 --> 00:07:46,115 somebody looking that up and telling me. 149 00:07:46,534 --> 00:07:50,495 So, you know, that's the kind of service that sort of meant something. 150 00:07:50,615 --> 00:07:52,895 It was meaningful, it did change the dial. 151 00:07:53,015 --> 00:07:55,805 I think if you sort. 152 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,280 How the delivery of legal work took place, where there was a need 153 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:08,010 to collaborate across multiple jurisdictions or multiple third parties. 154 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:13,890 So the client, their advisors plus the law firm, um, how did that get facilitated? 155 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:17,610 What did that do, did that make that transaction 10% more 156 00:08:17,610 --> 00:08:19,620 efficient, 10, 10% more productive? 157 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:25,500 It's very hard to weigh that up in terms of ROI, but it certainly does. 158 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,220 Make a difference because you're then not relying on email and 159 00:08:29,370 --> 00:08:31,140 losing things and stuff like that. 160 00:08:31,140 --> 00:08:34,679 It's all condensed in the same sort of space, and particularly if you do 161 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,659 that type of work regularly, which means that you can templatize that. 162 00:08:40,035 --> 00:08:43,695 And sort of turn that through instead of, you were talking about provisioning 163 00:08:43,695 --> 00:08:47,715 and everything else, if you can create a template of an m and a transaction that 164 00:08:47,715 --> 00:08:49,425 involves five different jurisdictions. 165 00:08:49,485 --> 00:08:52,785 'cause you know you're gonna do 20 of them in the next 24 months and the 166 00:08:52,785 --> 00:08:56,085 data's broadly gonna be the same, and the data, uh, the document structure's 167 00:08:56,085 --> 00:08:58,065 gonna be the same, et cetera, et cetera. 168 00:08:58,395 --> 00:09:01,425 How do you do that better, quicker, faster. 169 00:09:01,575 --> 00:09:04,725 You know that that does make a difference. 170 00:09:04,725 --> 00:09:05,745 It does make a difference. 171 00:09:06,105 --> 00:09:09,975 So I think they're the kind of scenarios where I naturally think that 172 00:09:10,095 --> 00:09:14,055 these kind of tools, these kind of toolings, sort of elevate the client 173 00:09:14,055 --> 00:09:16,845 service to client delivery, because ultimately that's what it's about. 174 00:09:16,845 --> 00:09:19,305 It's can, can it be done quicker and faster? 175 00:09:20,235 --> 00:09:23,505 Sometimes not necessarily cheaper, but quicker and faster. 176 00:09:24,015 --> 00:09:25,575 Can it be done more effectively? 177 00:09:25,605 --> 00:09:26,805 What does that look like? 178 00:09:27,105 --> 00:09:28,365 Is the client happier? 179 00:09:28,755 --> 00:09:31,755 Has the client had a good experience or can the client 180 00:09:31,935 --> 00:09:33,495 self-service some of that stuff? 181 00:09:33,615 --> 00:09:35,505 There's a lot of smart lawyers out there. 182 00:09:35,775 --> 00:09:37,454 Uh, a lot of lawyers that know what they're doing. 183 00:09:37,454 --> 00:09:41,204 So I mean, I think most consumers of, of law firms are 184 00:09:41,265 --> 00:09:42,675 maybe not that sophisticated. 185 00:09:42,675 --> 00:09:44,775 How do you know if a lawyer's better than another lawyer? 186 00:09:45,194 --> 00:09:48,015 So really what you have to do is you have to focus on. 187 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:53,910 How do I deliver my, my legal services to my clients, um, along 188 00:09:53,910 --> 00:09:55,800 with the relationship and the service. 189 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,400 And one of the biggest complaints that lawyers or law firms get is 190 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,989 my lawyer's not available enough. 191 00:10:01,439 --> 00:10:06,095 An extranet or a client portal is a way of, I. Maintaining that availability, 192 00:10:06,545 --> 00:10:08,584 even if you're not really available. 193 00:10:08,615 --> 00:10:11,615 'cause the client can come in and interact with the information, 194 00:10:11,915 --> 00:10:16,175 make comments, um, and, and and whatnot, even while you're not there. 195 00:10:16,595 --> 00:10:21,755 So that's really, I, that really became a big, you know, selling proposition OFTs. 196 00:10:21,755 --> 00:10:25,535 And I think, you know, why they kind of took off is because they were so 197 00:10:25,535 --> 00:10:27,694 popular with cust, with, with clients. 198 00:10:28,084 --> 00:10:31,475 And then as it evolved further, we start going from just document. 199 00:10:32,109 --> 00:10:34,839 Transmittal to redlining back and forth. 200 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:39,189 So now my client and I are redlining back and forth and I can have, you know, 201 00:10:39,189 --> 00:10:43,120 five or six or seven different people working in the document at the same time. 202 00:10:43,479 --> 00:10:46,420 A lot more efficiently than emailing documents around. 203 00:10:47,020 --> 00:10:51,459 And then, you know, if you fast forward to today, you know, we're seeing law 204 00:10:51,459 --> 00:10:54,760 firms doing all, doing all sorts of things because they're building in 205 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,704 workflows that are customized to how. 206 00:10:58,485 --> 00:11:03,405 A practice area works or you can customize how you work with an individual client. 207 00:11:03,435 --> 00:11:07,065 I mean, that's really the killer application is now the law firm is 208 00:11:07,065 --> 00:11:11,775 adding value to the client beyond just the legal services, uh, because of 209 00:11:11,775 --> 00:11:14,805 how they're delivering the information and providing the information. 210 00:11:15,315 --> 00:11:18,615 So the workflow piece and the law firms that are really be becoming 211 00:11:18,615 --> 00:11:23,055 innovative are really adapting how they work with the technology. 212 00:11:23,385 --> 00:11:24,525 The exciting thing about. 213 00:11:25,605 --> 00:11:30,375 Extranet technology is, is that it's become very adaptable where you can 214 00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:35,175 configure it rather than having to put software developers in to go build a 215 00:11:35,175 --> 00:11:39,974 custom tool every time you want to, uh, to do something unique with a client. 216 00:11:40,334 --> 00:11:43,964 And so it allows the innovative law firms to be, you know, very creative 217 00:11:43,964 --> 00:11:48,314 and very quick to market, um, with some of these unique solutions that 218 00:11:48,314 --> 00:11:52,665 they provide different clients, especially where, where AI is concerned. 219 00:11:54,435 --> 00:11:56,985 I think we're all still trying to figure out the ROI. 220 00:11:57,525 --> 00:11:57,765 Right. 221 00:11:57,765 --> 00:12:03,675 You're investing a lot dollars wise, perhaps time-wise. 222 00:12:03,735 --> 00:12:05,055 Hopefully, for sure. 223 00:12:05,895 --> 00:12:12,255 If you don't, you know, kind of take an r and d esque mindset, right? 224 00:12:12,345 --> 00:12:16,935 That you're gonna have some, some misses, right? 225 00:12:16,935 --> 00:12:19,755 But you've gotta have some, you'll, you'll find some hits, right? 226 00:12:19,755 --> 00:12:21,975 You'll, you'll have, and then you figure out. 227 00:12:22,515 --> 00:12:28,935 As it matures, as it gets better than today, you're, you're ready to have 228 00:12:28,935 --> 00:12:33,915 that ROI talk and, and really have an opportunity to say, Hey, we're 229 00:12:33,915 --> 00:12:38,685 differentiating this way, or we're ahead of market, or whatever that is. 230 00:12:39,405 --> 00:12:43,245 But to say, I don't know, I'm gonna wait. 231 00:12:43,245 --> 00:12:45,135 I, I think that's a risky bet. 232 00:12:45,225 --> 00:12:48,105 My view on AI is it should. 233 00:12:51,795 --> 00:12:56,025 Associate and partner with their existing workflows and allow them 234 00:12:56,025 --> 00:13:01,665 to focus on more meaningful client value work when possible, it should. 235 00:13:01,725 --> 00:13:04,455 Downstream implication of gene AI is greater than upstream. 236 00:13:05,085 --> 00:13:08,415 That's just, I think the ability to expand. 237 00:13:08,415 --> 00:13:14,085 Access to justice is a much larger use case that we focusing on, but the use 238 00:13:14,085 --> 00:13:18,405 cases for m and a private equity VC is where all the attention is going. 239 00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:26,310 Gen a IH in my lens has a much larger element down market and with the firms 240 00:13:26,315 --> 00:13:32,370 and, and practitioners that are focused on individual issues and problem 241 00:13:32,370 --> 00:13:36,420 statements that exist from citizens in this country and throughout the world. 242 00:13:36,930 --> 00:13:41,070 That is where you can have material, material improvement 243 00:13:41,070 --> 00:13:42,090 for access to justice. 244 00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:44,940 But that's not what we maturely talk about day in, day out. 245 00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:45,990 Um, even aire, right? 246 00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:47,970 We focus on our core customers. 247 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,510 Are doing transactional work or litigation. 248 00:13:51,510 --> 00:13:54,060 So I think it's gonna, it's here to stay. 249 00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:57,600 It's gonna have continuous iteration and refinement. 250 00:13:57,780 --> 00:13:59,880 It's not a set it and forget it approach. 251 00:14:00,810 --> 00:14:04,260 As models improve every six to nine months, we have to reassess 252 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:07,589 what that does to our product set and then refine and release. 253 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,449 It's super collaborative. 254 00:14:09,449 --> 00:14:12,930 We're asking questions all the time of what you're doing, how you're doing it, 255 00:14:12,990 --> 00:14:16,170 and sometimes we're behind the eight ball and sometimes we're out of the game. 256 00:14:16,905 --> 00:14:20,354 It just depends and but having strong conviction that you're on the right 257 00:14:20,354 --> 00:14:22,334 track is it keeps us moving forward. 258 00:14:22,334 --> 00:14:23,834 So it's should, yeah. 259 00:14:23,834 --> 00:14:24,854 I, I'm optimistic. 260 00:14:24,854 --> 00:14:25,454 I'm sort of bullish. 261 00:14:25,454 --> 00:14:31,454 I don't look, it should improve the amount of work lawyers have to do too. 262 00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:31,665 Right? 263 00:14:31,665 --> 00:14:36,555 There's so much unvended work that corporates have that now an associate 264 00:14:36,555 --> 00:14:37,875 can go after, a partner go after. 265 00:14:39,224 --> 00:14:41,084 I don't see it ever making the industry smaller. 266 00:14:41,084 --> 00:14:45,435 If anything, I think a good gen AI use case expands opportunity and growth. 267 00:14:45,464 --> 00:14:49,035 We worked backwards from, from the problem we were looking at like 268 00:14:49,035 --> 00:14:53,655 how can we streamline operations and unlock new markets with this? 269 00:14:53,714 --> 00:14:57,584 And so we were looking at like our client base and a lot of the population 270 00:14:57,584 --> 00:15:01,365 of America that, that maybe need legal services, but it's just out of reach. 271 00:15:01,365 --> 00:15:04,905 And we found that there are like three key things that keep vast market segments 272 00:15:05,204 --> 00:15:07,305 out of even approaching legal services. 273 00:15:07,935 --> 00:15:11,474 Time, mobility and money are just like the three things that 80, that are 274 00:15:11,474 --> 00:15:15,015 completely out of reach for 80% of the population that could use a lawyer, right? 275 00:15:15,795 --> 00:15:20,295 And so we thought, well, when you do, when a regular person goes to get legal 276 00:15:20,295 --> 00:15:24,314 services, a lot of the cost and time is front loaded in and just figuring 277 00:15:24,314 --> 00:15:25,635 out like, what does this person need? 278 00:15:25,635 --> 00:15:26,895 What is their situation? 279 00:15:26,895 --> 00:15:28,635 How can I help them as an attorney? 280 00:15:28,635 --> 00:15:28,875 Right? 281 00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:33,209 So the, the use case that we, that we approached, we, we realized like 282 00:15:33,449 --> 00:15:35,880 at, at first contact, it's six hours. 283 00:15:35,939 --> 00:15:39,089 It's a six hour interview for like, okay, hi, my name is attorney and you 284 00:15:39,089 --> 00:15:40,560 are such great, thanks for coming in. 285 00:15:40,589 --> 00:15:41,640 What, what's going on today? 286 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:42,990 And we're gonna write all this down and figure it out. 287 00:15:43,949 --> 00:15:46,949 And, and we, and every one of those conversations follows 288 00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:48,569 a pattern that is unique too. 289 00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:50,699 The practice or, or the situation, right? 290 00:15:50,699 --> 00:15:51,329 And we thought, well. 291 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:52,530 What if? 292 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,490 What if we could, what if we could apply some AI there to ask, ask the 293 00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:59,850 questions, but not according to a script or maybe according to a script, 294 00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:02,340 but better than following a script like a customer service chat bot. 295 00:16:03,150 --> 00:16:05,550 What if it could actually answer a lot of the tertiary questions that 296 00:16:05,550 --> 00:16:09,090 come up in that conversation that an attorney, that answer for you? 297 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,980 We've all sat for the AI presentation when we talk about how AI is streamlining 298 00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:17,130 things and it's making things run faster, and what does that mean 299 00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:19,080 for associate development, right? 300 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,939 What does it mean for staffing in terms of. 301 00:16:21,315 --> 00:16:22,665 Retention we're hiring. 302 00:16:22,665 --> 00:16:26,985 And so, you know, to your point, I mean, I think there is going to be a shift 303 00:16:26,985 --> 00:16:28,755 in the market with respect to demand. 304 00:16:28,905 --> 00:16:30,555 How many heads are you going to need? 305 00:16:30,585 --> 00:16:34,515 Does it mean that suddenly law firms will be able to engage in more legal work? 306 00:16:34,665 --> 00:16:34,935 Right? 307 00:16:34,935 --> 00:16:39,615 Because now they've freed up some of the, I I, I say that, and I have 308 00:16:39,615 --> 00:16:43,305 shared this story before because I think it bred a certain skillset. 309 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,020 People put their typing speed on their resume. 310 00:16:46,020 --> 00:16:47,730 It was something that was really important. 311 00:16:47,730 --> 00:16:51,210 And even as an attorney, it mattered if you could type, because it was such 312 00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:55,320 an integral skillset for those that were coming in with the technological 313 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,090 shift, just using computers, right? 314 00:16:57,780 --> 00:17:00,960 You had to have chron copies of everything and everything was in 315 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,440 paper, and you had a paper file and you had to carry it to court. 316 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,069 And what if you dropped something and it was a disaster in a lot of ways, right? 317 00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:12,450 No one cares about typing speed anymore, but the industry is still here. 318 00:17:13,004 --> 00:17:14,114 We're still all working. 319 00:17:14,114 --> 00:17:16,875 We're still delivering services and we're still doing a great job. 320 00:17:16,875 --> 00:17:20,175 And I don't think that bringing in the computer and getting 321 00:17:20,175 --> 00:17:23,444 rid of the typewriter, for example, hurt us in any way. 322 00:17:23,474 --> 00:17:25,454 Even though it made us a whole lot faster. 323 00:17:25,935 --> 00:17:28,935 We're not hiring less people or any of that. 324 00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:30,735 We're just doing more work because it's faster. 325 00:17:31,155 --> 00:17:33,435 I mean, I hate to say that out loud 'cause I think all of our industry 326 00:17:33,435 --> 00:17:36,675 experts are saying, oh, we're gonna need less associates possibly, or. 327 00:17:36,975 --> 00:17:39,794 There might be some stagnation in the development of people 328 00:17:39,794 --> 00:17:43,695 because now they're not gonna pour over a document review, right? 329 00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:46,125 I mean, I can type 120 a minute. 330 00:17:46,784 --> 00:17:48,615 I don't think it changes my career anymore. 331 00:17:48,675 --> 00:17:53,385 If you as an, an organization, as a firm, as a full service 332 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:57,375 firm believe in this direction of travel, let's just put the partner 333 00:17:57,375 --> 00:17:58,875 consensus to one side for a moment. 334 00:17:58,995 --> 00:18:03,945 If you do believe in this direction of travel, you are effectively. 335 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,900 Having to rebuild every practice area and every service that you provide to 336 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:15,030 every different type of client that you currently service from the ground 337 00:18:15,030 --> 00:18:23,580 up, it's like trying to build 10, 15, 20, 50 startups all at the same time. 338 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,050 Building one is difficult, building 50. 339 00:18:28,695 --> 00:18:33,495 That's a huge lift, particularly for those that have very 340 00:18:33,495 --> 00:18:35,235 little experience in doing so. 341 00:18:36,254 --> 00:18:41,085 So I think this is where there is a potential advantage for the mid-market 342 00:18:41,355 --> 00:18:46,095 and SME firms, the specialist firms that focus on one very specific area. 343 00:18:46,965 --> 00:18:50,355 And if you think about like some of the most successful technology, 344 00:18:51,014 --> 00:18:51,885 I mean, where did they start? 345 00:18:52,155 --> 00:18:54,855 They started in very specific. 346 00:18:55,514 --> 00:18:58,695 Areas before they became the behemoths that they're today. 347 00:18:58,695 --> 00:19:03,555 Think about Airbnb and renting out rooms in San Francisco. 348 00:19:03,615 --> 00:19:07,065 Think about Uber and private limos. 349 00:19:07,274 --> 00:19:09,225 Think about Amazon's secondhand books. 350 00:19:09,225 --> 00:19:12,915 You know, they're all, they all start in a very focused and specific need. 351 00:19:13,695 --> 00:19:17,325 So I think that's one of the challenges that big law faces. 352 00:19:17,475 --> 00:19:18,284 Perhaps the biggest one. 353 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:22,375 Our end of the spectrum, we're intrigued by the companies that are. 354 00:19:23,625 --> 00:19:28,695 Starting today as a pure technology company with no law firm, no lawyer around 355 00:19:28,695 --> 00:19:33,555 the table, thinking through how they deliver some value prop along kind of the, 356 00:19:33,555 --> 00:19:35,745 the, the value chain of legal services. 357 00:19:35,775 --> 00:19:40,245 And maybe at the end of the line there's an attorney as, as needed and, and you 358 00:19:40,245 --> 00:19:44,130 know, we're entering a new world or paradigm where there's some shifting in, 359 00:19:44,235 --> 00:19:46,305 in kind of regulatory expectations here. 360 00:19:46,815 --> 00:19:50,475 And do you need to be an attorney to own a law firm? 361 00:19:50,595 --> 00:19:51,885 And some of those. 362 00:19:52,245 --> 00:19:55,605 They've been breaking down internationally and they're starting to break down in, 363 00:19:55,665 --> 00:20:00,375 in certain states, and it's, it's a fascinating time and we've been kicking 364 00:20:00,375 --> 00:20:04,335 the can of how do we like organize around this and how do we talk about it? 365 00:20:04,335 --> 00:20:07,845 And one of the things we, we talked about is the law firm 2.0, 366 00:20:07,845 --> 00:20:11,790 as we call it, doesn't start with a partner or managing partner. 367 00:20:12,014 --> 00:20:15,165 It start, it starts with a line of code, like it's a 368 00:20:15,165 --> 00:20:16,695 technology company at its ethos. 369 00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:20,880 Then it thinks through at the end, how do I provide that strategic level 370 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,530 of guidance, that advisory, that that consultative approach to clients. 371 00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:30,210 And so that's what we're intrigued by with this concept of law Firm 2.0. 372 00:20:30,210 --> 00:20:33,330 And you know, as we think about the labs that we just talked about, or 373 00:20:33,330 --> 00:20:37,620 we think about our, our core fund, you know, we'd be disappointed if. 374 00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:41,880 Over half of our capital is not deployed in some version or concepts 375 00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:45,000 of these types of models, and they're, they're baby steps to get there. 376 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,990 And we'll, we'll play along that spectrum, but you know, this is the future and 377 00:20:48,990 --> 00:20:50,160 this is what we think about all day. 378 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,770 What'll be interesting is as we start to build truly automated workflows 379 00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:59,580 from start to finish now it may be a very, very narrow workflow. 380 00:21:00,314 --> 00:21:00,584 Right. 381 00:21:01,185 --> 00:21:02,445 But they, they will grow. 382 00:21:02,504 --> 00:21:03,645 They will grow, right? 383 00:21:03,645 --> 00:21:06,524 It's gonna get more and more, um, you know, more and more powerful. 384 00:21:06,615 --> 00:21:08,685 That's when I think the whole risk and insurance thing comes in. 385 00:21:08,895 --> 00:21:11,895 But even so, you could argue that law firms still have it under their 386 00:21:11,895 --> 00:21:15,314 umbrella, and it'll be down to the law firm or any consultants they can bring 387 00:21:15,314 --> 00:21:22,334 in to, you know, sort of do pen testing effectively, to, um, you know, to make 388 00:21:22,334 --> 00:21:23,745 sure that it works completely fine. 389 00:21:23,925 --> 00:21:26,445 But yeah, I mean, for me, this is, this has always been the battle. 390 00:21:26,805 --> 00:21:30,465 Most lawyers, most professionals, they see technology and they go, great. 391 00:21:30,465 --> 00:21:33,015 How can that add to what I do already? 392 00:21:33,645 --> 00:21:38,025 How that, how can that finesse or take a little bit of a bother outta my life? 393 00:21:38,715 --> 00:21:38,985 All right? 394 00:21:38,985 --> 00:21:40,665 They're the center of the universe, right? 395 00:21:42,345 --> 00:21:46,970 If that is all we do with AI now, then nothing's gonna change at all. 396 00:21:47,625 --> 00:21:49,815 It goes back to, I dunno if we were probably at this point before, it 397 00:21:49,815 --> 00:21:54,555 becomes the IKEA catalog situation where you get your, your various 398 00:21:54,555 --> 00:21:58,365 shelving units and cushions and rugs and throws and all of this kind of stuff. 399 00:21:58,725 --> 00:21:59,655 And it's very prudent. 400 00:21:59,655 --> 00:22:04,425 It's very nice and it greatly increases the comfort of that person and why not 401 00:22:04,425 --> 00:22:07,485 people like to be comfortable, but it doesn't change fundamentally anything. 402 00:22:07,485 --> 00:22:10,245 You're not local, boozy at completely redesigning the building. 403 00:22:10,665 --> 00:22:13,185 You know, you don't change your one bedroom flat. 404 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:15,000 Into a machine for living. 405 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:18,750 As busier said, you know, we're fundamentally still in the same world 406 00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:21,030 with some decorations from ikea, right. 407 00:22:21,030 --> 00:22:22,530 Bought out a catalog and then installed. 408 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:26,909 Things only change once you start to automate whole streams. 409 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,860 And I think that's, and this, I think this is incredibly difficult for 410 00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:35,340 professionals, particularly lawyers, to, to get their heads around because 411 00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:40,290 it's just like, yes, you are not gonna own everything any longer. 412 00:22:41,325 --> 00:22:43,995 You might be able to earn the output and make money from it, but 413 00:22:43,995 --> 00:22:45,555 you will not own those workflows. 414 00:22:45,615 --> 00:22:50,445 You had some thoughts on AI hallucinations in legal work and like, what is the 415 00:22:50,445 --> 00:22:56,264 current state of AI hallucinations and like, challenges around detection? 416 00:22:56,355 --> 00:23:03,135 By this time next year in legal, it would be 90, 98%, uh, fixed investing. 417 00:23:03,195 --> 00:23:04,125 Investing. 418 00:23:04,575 --> 00:23:08,085 So I'm really scared 'cause I wanna, I wanna do, I have a project. 419 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:14,700 Venture at the moment looking at how to do evals and I'm not the only one. 420 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:18,420 There are a couple of others passionate people that wanna fix this problem. 421 00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:21,240 Uh, 'cause I also see it as an infrastructure problem. 422 00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:28,415 But if you try and, uh, bet against models improving, it is a losing be. 423 00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:31,020 So that's the scary thing to me. 424 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:38,100 I ran tests, so when I stumbled upon this, I ran tests on, uh, open source 425 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:42,450 models and they were horrible on legal data, but the frontier models, 426 00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:46,740 the closed models, the cloud models, they were constantly improving. 427 00:23:47,220 --> 00:23:50,370 And now with their hybrid architecture, whereby. 428 00:23:51,209 --> 00:23:54,449 Some of them are doing web search, you know, under the hood, 429 00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:56,669 others are routing or whatever. 430 00:23:56,730 --> 00:24:01,169 Maybe they're just using straight up index search in the backend and then have a 431 00:24:01,169 --> 00:24:06,330 model go in and some, I don't know what they're doing, but slowly but surely. 432 00:24:06,735 --> 00:24:09,225 Uh, hallucinations has been reducing. 433 00:24:09,315 --> 00:24:14,505 Now, what does a judge think a hallucination is? 434 00:24:14,595 --> 00:24:18,885 It's a totally different story than when a model hallucinates. 435 00:24:18,975 --> 00:24:22,005 A lot of times we think about, you know, you're too poor to afford attorneys 436 00:24:22,005 --> 00:24:23,835 so that you, one is provided for you. 437 00:24:23,835 --> 00:24:24,045 Right? 438 00:24:24,045 --> 00:24:28,980 The law and order St. Um, but that's not the case in civil ca in civil 439 00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:32,580 law, there's no, uh, constitutional right to an attorney in a civil case. 440 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,200 And people don't understand that. 441 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,790 Civil cases can be as life impacting as a criminal case. 442 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,340 So you can get up to a year in prison. 443 00:24:41,370 --> 00:24:45,660 In a civil case, you can lose your kids in, um, custody, family matters. 444 00:24:45,930 --> 00:24:47,640 Uh, divorce, you can lose your home. 445 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:47,850 Right? 446 00:24:47,850 --> 00:24:49,470 Foreclosure, eviction. 447 00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:52,139 You can have your paycheck taken away, right? 448 00:24:52,139 --> 00:24:53,760 If they, if you have a debt issue. 449 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,050 And so there's all of these things that are bubbling up in civil court that 450 00:24:58,050 --> 00:25:00,600 are hugely impacting people's lives. 451 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,540 Civil court's actually, where they're spending a lot of time, most people 452 00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:06,270 are interacting with the justice system through civil court, and they 453 00:25:06,270 --> 00:25:07,230 don't have the right to an attorney. 454 00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:08,985 So some statistics, right? 455 00:25:08,985 --> 00:25:13,770 So the Legal Services Corporation is the entity funded by Congress to provide 456 00:25:13,770 --> 00:25:15,480 for, for legal aid across the country. 457 00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:19,379 There are LSC funded legal aid organizations in every state. 458 00:25:20,430 --> 00:25:24,600 And they have, um, an interesting project called, or, uh, um, a 459 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,970 funding stream called the tig. 460 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,260 So technology innovation grants special money set aside to do 461 00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:35,250 innovative things with technology to impact, uh, the justice gap. 462 00:25:35,850 --> 00:25:37,200 So the justice gap in general, right? 463 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:37,920 So, um. 464 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,940 2022 study from the Legal Services Corporation. 465 00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:44,940 It's, uh, literally called the Justice Gap Report. 466 00:25:45,420 --> 00:25:49,890 Um, something like 92% of people who are low income have a legal issue 467 00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:51,780 and they can't or don't address it. 468 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,850 So people are sitting there. 469 00:25:54,780 --> 00:25:56,430 Hundreds of millions of people. 470 00:25:56,430 --> 00:26:00,720 I think I did a little statistics with the census, something like 471 00:26:00,930 --> 00:26:05,520 potentially a hundred million people are sitting around with life changing 472 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,030 potentially legal issues, and they're not dealing with them because they 473 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,230 don't have money for an attorney. 474 00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:14,100 They don't know that it's a legal issue or they go to legal aid and there's not 475 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:16,889 enough help there to actually get them. 476 00:26:16,889 --> 00:26:18,930 The free lawyers that we've provided. 477 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,050 Through federal funding streams or local funding streams. 478 00:26:22,050 --> 00:26:25,560 So it's really, a lot of people are dealing with the justice gap 479 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,620 and technology is around to help. 480 00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:30,810 And so that's what I've spent my career working on. 481 00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:34,560 I think the starting point is to be realistic about where the technology 482 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,475 is now, but also very cognizant of where the technology's going and, 483 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,170 and we've gone, you know, both these places in our conversation, right? 484 00:26:43,170 --> 00:26:46,350 Like ai, it's not doing the high value stuff right now. 485 00:26:47,055 --> 00:26:49,665 There's a possible world where it does do that. 486 00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:54,465 So then the question is, strategically for an organization, how do I leverage 487 00:26:54,645 --> 00:27:00,915 what it can do now and build a blueprint for where the technology's going? 488 00:27:01,514 --> 00:27:05,325 So an example that I think I and probably others use all the 489 00:27:05,325 --> 00:27:07,605 time is that of Netflix, right? 490 00:27:07,605 --> 00:27:12,610 When, when Netflix built its company, it was on version one of the internet. 491 00:27:13,485 --> 00:27:14,595 There was no streaming. 492 00:27:14,595 --> 00:27:16,605 Broadband wasn't happening. 493 00:27:16,605 --> 00:27:20,235 Like the technical capabilities were not there for an on 494 00:27:20,235 --> 00:27:22,965 demand video delivery service. 495 00:27:22,965 --> 00:27:23,295 Right. 496 00:27:24,135 --> 00:27:29,325 But strategically, they built their company to win in that world. 497 00:27:29,699 --> 00:27:31,139 That was very quickly coming. 498 00:27:31,169 --> 00:27:32,939 So what do you need to win? 499 00:27:32,939 --> 00:27:34,379 In a streaming world? 500 00:27:34,649 --> 00:27:35,790 You need a customer base. 501 00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:37,949 You need algorithms for recommendation. 502 00:27:37,949 --> 00:27:41,879 You need to get people used to clicking on websites in order to 503 00:27:42,179 --> 00:27:45,689 navigate their VI video rentals rather than going into a store, you 504 00:27:45,689 --> 00:27:47,459 need all these different capacities. 505 00:27:47,459 --> 00:27:50,760 You need a inventory catalog, you need licensing agreements 506 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:51,659 with different companies. 507 00:27:51,959 --> 00:27:55,500 All this stuff is necessary for the streaming world. 508 00:27:56,205 --> 00:27:57,195 But what did they do? 509 00:27:57,195 --> 00:28:02,085 They built a mail order business because that's what this technology could support 510 00:28:02,085 --> 00:28:06,765 at the time, and it wasn't as good as brick and mortar in some ways, but they 511 00:28:06,765 --> 00:28:11,145 made use of what the technology could do in the present in order to win the future. 512 00:28:11,745 --> 00:28:16,035 And that's really why I think it's important that law firms look at what can 513 00:28:16,035 --> 00:28:22,365 AI do right now and how can we use that as a blueprint in order to win a future? 514 00:28:22,754 --> 00:28:25,845 Where AI can lawyer just as well as people can. 515 00:28:25,875 --> 00:28:26,264 Yeah. 516 00:28:26,264 --> 00:28:29,685 And you know what's another interesting aspect of Netflix and what they were 517 00:28:29,685 --> 00:28:34,544 able to accomplish is they started streaming other people's content. 518 00:28:35,024 --> 00:28:35,145 Yeah. 519 00:28:35,145 --> 00:28:40,305 And then they, they saw the writing on the wall of, you know, Disney's 520 00:28:40,305 --> 00:28:45,524 and NBC and all these content producers creating their own networks. 521 00:28:45,524 --> 00:28:48,315 And they got ahead of that and started doing original content. 522 00:28:48,959 --> 00:28:55,230 So, yeah, kudos to Netflix for, you know, seeing the future and 523 00:28:55,230 --> 00:28:56,879 preparing for it proactively. 524 00:28:56,879 --> 00:29:00,959 They didn't wait until these content providers turned the 525 00:29:00,959 --> 00:29:07,080 screws on the licensing agreements to make their business unviable. 526 00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:12,389 They started, started early and got ahead of it, and have been wildly 527 00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:13,740 successful as a result of that. 528 00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:16,560 It's what every successful company has done. 529 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,459 You look at Uber. 530 00:29:18,105 --> 00:29:22,035 They didn't build their company in order to create a gig economy. 531 00:29:22,065 --> 00:29:23,385 They happened to do that. 532 00:29:23,805 --> 00:29:27,315 They built their company because of self-driving vehicles. 533 00:29:27,315 --> 00:29:29,655 That is the future we're moving into, right? 534 00:29:29,655 --> 00:29:31,575 That's where the profitability is, right? 535 00:29:31,575 --> 00:29:34,125 So you look to the future, where are we going? 536 00:29:34,545 --> 00:29:38,205 But what do I need to build in the present in order to win that future? 537 00:29:38,205 --> 00:29:43,845 Because I need a customer base in order to win the self-driving fleet. 538 00:29:44,565 --> 00:29:45,885 Possible future, right? 539 00:29:45,885 --> 00:29:50,595 So what do law firms need to build right now to win the future of AI lawyering? 540 00:29:50,895 --> 00:29:53,145 Thanks for listening to Legal Innovation Spotlight. 541 00:29:53,685 --> 00:29:57,165 If you found value in this chat, hit the subscribe button to be notified 542 00:29:57,165 --> 00:29:58,635 when we release new episodes. 543 00:29:59,175 --> 00:30:01,845 We'd also really appreciate it if you could take a moment to rate 544 00:30:01,845 --> 00:30:04,485 us and leave us a review wherever you're listening right now. 545 00:30:05,055 --> 00:30:07,754 Your feedback helps us provide you with top-notch content. 00:00:03,180 If you just kind of come up the default, whatever your poli sci 2 00:00:03,180 --> 00:00:06,900 major and go to law school, where do you get your business training? 3 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:09,270 Where do you get your technology training? 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,590 It's, and it's, it's, that's why we have to redesign education Yes. 5 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:17,970 Of today to build out what, you know, what we dub as the asset of the 6 00:00:17,970 --> 00:00:19,230 future of the lawyer in the future. 7 00:00:19,260 --> 00:00:21,150 Now what we call that is a nimble lawyer. 8 00:00:21,210 --> 00:00:22,560 Somebody needs to be very resilient. 9 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,330 I have an entire slide deck on this. 10 00:00:24,390 --> 00:00:27,390 What we are focused on is how do we develop the lawyer of the future? 11 00:00:27,435 --> 00:00:30,375 Right, and how do we, how do we build those skill sets? 12 00:00:30,404 --> 00:00:34,455 And it's about creation of someone who is client-centric, entrepreneur, but 13 00:00:34,455 --> 00:00:38,445 also entrepreneur to the organization and, and adding back that kind of IP to 14 00:00:38,445 --> 00:00:41,985 the organization that is focused on a different type of client team delivery. 15 00:00:41,985 --> 00:00:44,415 Meaning it might not just be lawyers that are delivering, it could be 16 00:00:44,415 --> 00:00:47,834 consultants within the firm on data privacy and other elements 17 00:00:47,834 --> 00:00:49,394 that need to need to provide that. 18 00:00:49,724 --> 00:00:50,620 It's being a data. 19 00:00:51,315 --> 00:00:55,035 Centric, AI centric human meaning. 20 00:00:55,035 --> 00:00:55,995 Don't be afraid of it. 21 00:00:56,205 --> 00:00:56,865 Work with it. 22 00:00:57,075 --> 00:01:00,075 Make certain that you're not relying upon it, but understanding how it 23 00:01:00,075 --> 00:01:03,645 needs to impact your day to day and how you can work with that to exceed 24 00:01:03,855 --> 00:01:05,295 the expectations of the client. 25 00:01:06,165 --> 00:01:08,740 And, um, someone who's a constant learner. 26 00:01:09,795 --> 00:01:13,185 And, and making certain that you are, you're make, you're making time to 27 00:01:13,185 --> 00:01:16,155 innovate, making time to challenge yourself and, and things like that. 28 00:01:16,155 --> 00:01:19,095 So we're focused on a program that not only will deliver the substantive, the 29 00:01:19,095 --> 00:01:22,815 substantive is easy to be very honest with you, if you want me to teach 30 00:01:22,815 --> 00:01:24,555 someone how to be a tax lawyer, okay. 31 00:01:24,705 --> 00:01:26,175 That really hadn't changed in about 20 years. 32 00:01:26,595 --> 00:01:29,625 It, it really has not, other than certain tax laws that are changing here or there, 33 00:01:29,835 --> 00:01:35,325 generally the practice of law from where I began hasn't changed a ton, but it's how. 34 00:01:35,655 --> 00:01:37,365 We deliver upon those services. 35 00:01:37,365 --> 00:01:42,105 That is just systematically changed, and that's really 36 00:01:42,105 --> 00:01:43,575 where we have an opportunity. 37 00:01:43,650 --> 00:01:45,720 To differentiate ourselves mm-hmm. 38 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,990 In a very unique way, but it's tapping into those human 39 00:01:48,990 --> 00:01:50,340 skills, those business skills. 40 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:53,730 It's the how I think about, I think about innovation as doing things 41 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:56,790 better, and I think doing things better is a, is a function of change 42 00:01:56,790 --> 00:02:01,140 management and it depends on how large of an impact you wanna have. 43 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:01,770 Right. 44 00:02:01,770 --> 00:02:05,970 At Yale, I was building a transformative program that would change how 45 00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:07,470 we did things for 200 years. 46 00:02:07,965 --> 00:02:11,055 It would be the largest program that we had done to date. 47 00:02:11,745 --> 00:02:16,755 Uh, and what was interesting is I had the support of my dean, right? 48 00:02:16,755 --> 00:02:20,325 So I had the most senior person gave me support to do something. 49 00:02:20,775 --> 00:02:24,225 I had very willing and interested students and alumni who knew that 50 00:02:24,225 --> 00:02:28,005 there were gaps and wanted to bridge those gaps and create something better 51 00:02:28,005 --> 00:02:30,525 for themselves and future students. 52 00:02:30,975 --> 00:02:35,475 I had really engaged colleagues across other parts of the university, including 53 00:02:35,475 --> 00:02:37,070 the business, uh, school and the side. 54 00:02:37,755 --> 00:02:42,615 Center for innovation, and so I was able to pull all of those pieces together and 55 00:02:42,615 --> 00:02:47,475 my general resourcefulness and hunger allowed me to leverage my resources along 56 00:02:47,505 --> 00:02:50,895 among the alumni community and among the Yale community to be able to do that 57 00:02:51,105 --> 00:02:53,385 with the political backing of my dean. 58 00:02:53,895 --> 00:02:58,035 That said, it's still really, really difficult to do because change management 59 00:02:58,245 --> 00:03:01,455 is actually in the day to day, right? 60 00:03:01,695 --> 00:03:03,405 It doesn't matter how much money you have. 61 00:03:03,855 --> 00:03:06,675 It actually doesn't matter how much political backing you have, if the 62 00:03:06,675 --> 00:03:11,805 structure itself is impervious to change, it's very difficult to do these things. 63 00:03:11,805 --> 00:03:14,025 So you can create a really great structure. 64 00:03:14,205 --> 00:03:18,765 You can endow a program, but if the people who are in there day-to-day are 65 00:03:18,765 --> 00:03:23,385 not bought into the mission and are not constantly striving and hungry to 66 00:03:23,385 --> 00:03:28,995 improve the processes and review what they're doing in every single iteration. 67 00:03:29,445 --> 00:03:30,465 It won't change. 68 00:03:30,465 --> 00:03:32,325 How is this change going to happen? 69 00:03:32,325 --> 00:03:37,125 How are lawyers going to evolve to shift and expand their workflow in this way? 70 00:03:37,125 --> 00:03:40,905 And it has to be anchored to something that's easy and something that's 71 00:03:40,905 --> 00:03:44,205 appealing and something that's an extension of where we already are. 72 00:03:44,265 --> 00:03:47,265 And the example that I use is around social media, right? 73 00:03:47,265 --> 00:03:50,955 So if you think about Instagram or TikTok, right, or any of the social 74 00:03:50,955 --> 00:03:54,855 media tools that, that we generally use or that, you know, younger generations 75 00:03:54,855 --> 00:03:56,775 are using, no one ever taught. 76 00:03:57,060 --> 00:03:59,340 Those users to use those tools. 77 00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:01,590 And I remember the earlier days of Instagram, right? 78 00:04:01,590 --> 00:04:04,590 Playing around with the filters and sort of learning how to 79 00:04:04,590 --> 00:04:06,359 use this new app on my phone. 80 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:07,590 And it was fun. 81 00:04:07,709 --> 00:04:08,880 It was really engaging. 82 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,660 It was really just interesting to use the seia filter on my photos. 83 00:04:12,660 --> 00:04:13,769 I was like, wow, this is so cool. 84 00:04:13,769 --> 00:04:14,490 It feels like amazing. 85 00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:17,344 A film, like a, you know, like a la a camera or something like that. 86 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,740 It just felt really engaging and I think. 87 00:04:21,810 --> 00:04:27,719 Level of user experience in, that's when you start to engage and that's when you. 88 00:04:31,695 --> 00:04:35,295 You know, go with the flow of the, of the change management more organically. 89 00:04:35,565 --> 00:04:38,655 I think if it's forced on you, if you have to use something and it's 90 00:04:38,655 --> 00:04:42,285 not native, it's not, you know, behaviorally something that's familiar, 91 00:04:42,555 --> 00:04:45,915 that's where you run into the, the biggest change management frictions. 92 00:04:45,915 --> 00:04:50,835 But what I'm excited about now, which I think is really a different era than we've 93 00:04:50,835 --> 00:04:55,005 ever been in before in legal, is that the legal technologies that we're seeing. 94 00:04:55,420 --> 00:05:00,940 Do have that sort of easy and inviting UX look and feel, and they do have that 95 00:05:00,940 --> 00:05:05,560 value add and that proposition, you can do something in a way that's really engaging. 96 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,700 That's cool, that's interesting. 97 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,730 You can summarize things, you can have iterative arguments 98 00:05:09,850 --> 00:05:11,290 that are proposed to you. 99 00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:13,270 You can have counter arguments proposed to you. 100 00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:17,500 You can do things that are quote unquote cool and that are really just interesting. 101 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:21,820 And I think that will be engaging enough for lawyers to give it a try 102 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:23,710 because it's just, it's curiosity. 103 00:05:23,710 --> 00:05:25,010 It's, you know, it's something that we. 104 00:05:25,530 --> 00:05:29,460 We tend to engage with as people, and I think it's no different as lawyers. 105 00:05:29,460 --> 00:05:30,330 Lawyers are people. 106 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,040 I am so excited about the evolutions in, um, data extraction. 107 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:39,300 If I had a quarter for every time a lawyer told me that, like, why can't 108 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:40,650 you just go to my documents and get it? 109 00:05:40,650 --> 00:05:41,700 It's all in my documents. 110 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:44,340 And it's like, I'm not trained to read your documents. 111 00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:49,560 By the time that you can just give it to me, it'll be significantly faster than me 112 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,359 figuring out how to read these documents. 113 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:56,669 Um, and so I think that idea of document extraction is really 114 00:05:56,669 --> 00:05:58,530 gonna revolutionize experience. 115 00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:01,890 Like you're still gonna need the human to kind of give the details that 116 00:06:01,890 --> 00:06:05,370 don't make it into writing that are still equally important, particularly 117 00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:08,640 thinking about like, you know, deal studies and things like that. 118 00:06:09,299 --> 00:06:10,979 Um, but I think that it'll really. 119 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:15,570 Increase the quality and reduce the time that it takes to 120 00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:17,190 get experience information. 121 00:06:17,729 --> 00:06:20,549 You know, right now, if someone would only give me three things, I'd say 122 00:06:20,549 --> 00:06:23,789 give me the location, the client role, and the industry that matters in. 123 00:06:24,479 --> 00:06:27,280 Um, but very soon, if not right now based. 124 00:06:27,705 --> 00:06:30,525 Some of the products on the market can give that to me immediately. 125 00:06:30,914 --> 00:06:33,525 So it's like, all right, what are the next three pieces of data that 126 00:06:33,525 --> 00:06:37,575 I see people asking for and I know can help facilitate, you know, not 127 00:06:37,575 --> 00:06:40,335 just helping our lawyers work more efficiently, but helping our business 128 00:06:40,335 --> 00:06:42,195 departments work more efficiently. 129 00:06:42,195 --> 00:06:44,085 Like, what is that next part? 130 00:06:44,265 --> 00:06:44,534 You know? 131 00:06:44,534 --> 00:06:49,364 And then I look at like AI to help with hygiene and standardization. 132 00:06:49,935 --> 00:06:52,364 You know, the more that we could, you know, cleaning up 133 00:06:52,364 --> 00:06:54,255 records because experience. 134 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,930 It's always gonna be a little messy in the data because you have your nice 135 00:06:57,930 --> 00:07:01,920 structured clean data, but you want users to give you information too. 136 00:07:02,340 --> 00:07:04,980 And users are human and humans are not nice and tidy. 137 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,855 Um, as much as we like, love to try to organize our lives. 138 00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:14,250 We're a little messy, messy, um, we make mistakes and I really think AI is going 139 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:19,590 to help us reduce the amount of human interaction when it comes to data hygiene. 140 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,940 Imagine a topic, AI governance, or ai, it doesn't exist yet. 141 00:07:24,030 --> 00:07:27,240 AI regulation across the states of America, okay? 142 00:07:27,450 --> 00:07:30,420 There's a different sort of set of rules in every single state. 143 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,380 What does that mean? 144 00:07:31,895 --> 00:07:34,025 My company operates in 10 states. 145 00:07:34,025 --> 00:07:37,235 I wanna know the status of the regulation in those 10 states. 146 00:07:37,594 --> 00:07:41,375 Somebody would subscribe to that because that's meaningful, it's experience and 147 00:07:41,375 --> 00:07:44,795 it's clever, and I don't wanna have to pay for the six minute increments of 148 00:07:44,795 --> 00:07:46,115 somebody looking that up and telling me. 149 00:07:46,534 --> 00:07:50,495 So, you know, that's the kind of service that sort of meant something. 150 00:07:50,615 --> 00:07:52,895 It was meaningful, it did change the dial. 151 00:07:53,015 --> 00:07:55,805 I think if you sort. 152 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,280 How the delivery of legal work took place, where there was a need 153 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:08,010 to collaborate across multiple jurisdictions or multiple third parties. 154 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:13,890 So the client, their advisors plus the law firm, um, how did that get facilitated? 155 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:17,610 What did that do, did that make that transaction 10% more 156 00:08:17,610 --> 00:08:19,620 efficient, 10, 10% more productive? 157 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:25,500 It's very hard to weigh that up in terms of ROI, but it certainly does. 158 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,220 Make a difference because you're then not relying on email and 159 00:08:29,370 --> 00:08:31,140 losing things and stuff like that. 160 00:08:31,140 --> 00:08:34,679 It's all condensed in the same sort of space, and particularly if you do 161 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,659 that type of work regularly, which means that you can templatize that. 162 00:08:40,035 --> 00:08:43,695 And sort of turn that through instead of, you were talking about provisioning 163 00:08:43,695 --> 00:08:47,715 and everything else, if you can create a template of an m and a transaction that 164 00:08:47,715 --> 00:08:49,425 involves five different jurisdictions. 165 00:08:49,485 --> 00:08:52,785 'cause you know you're gonna do 20 of them in the next 24 months and the 166 00:08:52,785 --> 00:08:56,085 data's broadly gonna be the same, and the data, uh, the document structure's 167 00:08:56,085 --> 00:08:58,065 gonna be the same, et cetera, et cetera. 168 00:08:58,395 --> 00:09:01,425 How do you do that better, quicker, faster. 169 00:09:01,575 --> 00:09:04,725 You know that that does make a difference. 170 00:09:04,725 --> 00:09:05,745 It does make a difference. 171 00:09:06,105 --> 00:09:09,975 So I think they're the kind of scenarios where I naturally think that 172 00:09:10,095 --> 00:09:14,055 these kind of tools, these kind of toolings, sort of elevate the client 173 00:09:14,055 --> 00:09:16,845 service to client delivery, because ultimately that's what it's about. 174 00:09:16,845 --> 00:09:19,305 It's can, can it be done quicker and faster? 175 00:09:20,235 --> 00:09:23,505 Sometimes not necessarily cheaper, but quicker and faster. 176 00:09:24,015 --> 00:09:25,575 Can it be done more effectively? 177 00:09:25,605 --> 00:09:26,805 What does that look like? 178 00:09:27,105 --> 00:09:28,365 Is the client happier? 179 00:09:28,755 --> 00:09:31,755 Has the client had a good experience or can the client 180 00:09:31,935 --> 00:09:33,495 self-service some of that stuff? 181 00:09:33,615 --> 00:09:35,505 There's a lot of smart lawyers out there. 182 00:09:35,775 --> 00:09:37,454 Uh, a lot of lawyers that know what they're doing. 183 00:09:37,454 --> 00:09:41,204 So I mean, I think most consumers of, of law firms are 184 00:09:41,265 --> 00:09:42,675 maybe not that sophisticated. 185 00:09:42,675 --> 00:09:44,775 How do you know if a lawyer's better than another lawyer? 186 00:09:45,194 --> 00:09:48,015 So really what you have to do is you have to focus on. 187 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:53,910 How do I deliver my, my legal services to my clients, um, along 188 00:09:53,910 --> 00:09:55,800 with the relationship and the service. 189 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,400 And one of the biggest complaints that lawyers or law firms get is 190 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,989 my lawyer's not available enough. 191 00:10:01,439 --> 00:10:06,095 An extranet or a client portal is a way of, I. Maintaining that availability, 192 00:10:06,545 --> 00:10:08,584 even if you're not really available. 193 00:10:08,615 --> 00:10:11,615 'cause the client can come in and interact with the information, 194 00:10:11,915 --> 00:10:16,175 make comments, um, and, and and whatnot, even while you're not there. 195 00:10:16,595 --> 00:10:21,755 So that's really, I, that really became a big, you know, selling proposition OFTs. 196 00:10:21,755 --> 00:10:25,535 And I think, you know, why they kind of took off is because they were so 197 00:10:25,535 --> 00:10:27,694 popular with cust, with, with clients. 198 00:10:28,084 --> 00:10:31,475 And then as it evolved further, we start going from just document. 199 00:10:32,109 --> 00:10:34,839 Transmittal to redlining back and forth. 200 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:39,189 So now my client and I are redlining back and forth and I can have, you know, 201 00:10:39,189 --> 00:10:43,120 five or six or seven different people working in the document at the same time. 202 00:10:43,479 --> 00:10:46,420 A lot more efficiently than emailing documents around. 203 00:10:47,020 --> 00:10:51,459 And then, you know, if you fast forward to today, you know, we're seeing law 204 00:10:51,459 --> 00:10:54,760 firms doing all, doing all sorts of things because they're building in 205 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,704 workflows that are customized to how. 206 00:10:58,485 --> 00:11:03,405 A practice area works or you can customize how you work with an individual client. 207 00:11:03,435 --> 00:11:07,065 I mean, that's really the killer application is now the law firm is 208 00:11:07,065 --> 00:11:11,775 adding value to the client beyond just the legal services, uh, because of 209 00:11:11,775 --> 00:11:14,805 how they're delivering the information and providing the information. 210 00:11:15,315 --> 00:11:18,615 So the workflow piece and the law firms that are really be becoming 211 00:11:18,615 --> 00:11:23,055 innovative are really adapting how they work with the technology. 212 00:11:23,385 --> 00:11:24,525 The exciting thing about. 213 00:11:25,605 --> 00:11:30,375 Extranet technology is, is that it's become very adaptable where you can 214 00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:35,175 configure it rather than having to put software developers in to go build a 215 00:11:35,175 --> 00:11:39,974 custom tool every time you want to, uh, to do something unique with a client. 216 00:11:40,334 --> 00:11:43,964 And so it allows the innovative law firms to be, you know, very creative 217 00:11:43,964 --> 00:11:48,314 and very quick to market, um, with some of these unique solutions that 218 00:11:48,314 --> 00:11:52,665 they provide different clients, especially where, where AI is concerned. 219 00:11:54,435 --> 00:11:56,985 I think we're all still trying to figure out the ROI. 220 00:11:57,525 --> 00:11:57,765 Right. 221 00:11:57,765 --> 00:12:03,675 You're investing a lot dollars wise, perhaps time-wise. 222 00:12:03,735 --> 00:12:05,055 Hopefully, for sure. 223 00:12:05,895 --> 00:12:12,255 If you don't, you know, kind of take an r and d esque mindset, right? 224 00:12:12,345 --> 00:12:16,935 That you're gonna have some, some misses, right? 225 00:12:16,935 --> 00:12:19,755 But you've gotta have some, you'll, you'll find some hits, right? 226 00:12:19,755 --> 00:12:21,975 You'll, you'll have, and then you figure out. 227 00:12:22,515 --> 00:12:28,935 As it matures, as it gets better than today, you're, you're ready to have 228 00:12:28,935 --> 00:12:33,915 that ROI talk and, and really have an opportunity to say, Hey, we're 229 00:12:33,915 --> 00:12:38,685 differentiating this way, or we're ahead of market, or whatever that is. 230 00:12:39,405 --> 00:12:43,245 But to say, I don't know, I'm gonna wait. 231 00:12:43,245 --> 00:12:45,135 I, I think that's a risky bet. 232 00:12:45,225 --> 00:12:48,105 My view on AI is it should. 233 00:12:51,795 --> 00:12:56,025 Associate and partner with their existing workflows and allow them 234 00:12:56,025 --> 00:13:01,665 to focus on more meaningful client value work when possible, it should. 235 00:13:01,725 --> 00:13:04,455 Downstream implication of gene AI is greater than upstream. 236 00:13:05,085 --> 00:13:08,415 That's just, I think the ability to expand. 237 00:13:08,415 --> 00:13:14,085 Access to justice is a much larger use case that we focusing on, but the use 238 00:13:14,085 --> 00:13:18,405 cases for m and a private equity VC is where all the attention is going. 239 00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:26,310 Gen a IH in my lens has a much larger element down market and with the firms 240 00:13:26,315 --> 00:13:32,370 and, and practitioners that are focused on individual issues and problem 241 00:13:32,370 --> 00:13:36,420 statements that exist from citizens in this country and throughout the world. 242 00:13:36,930 --> 00:13:41,070 That is where you can have material, material improvement 243 00:13:41,070 --> 00:13:42,090 for access to justice. 244 00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:44,940 But that's not what we maturely talk about day in, day out. 245 00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:45,990 Um, even aire, right? 246 00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:47,970 We focus on our core customers. 247 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,510 Are doing transactional work or litigation. 248 00:13:51,510 --> 00:13:54,060 So I think it's gonna, it's here to stay. 249 00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:57,600 It's gonna have continuous iteration and refinement. 250 00:13:57,780 --> 00:13:59,880 It's not a set it and forget it approach. 251 00:14:00,810 --> 00:14:04,260 As models improve every six to nine months, we have to reassess 252 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:07,589 what that does to our product set and then refine and release. 253 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,449 It's super collaborative. 254 00:14:09,449 --> 00:14:12,930 We're asking questions all the time of what you're doing, how you're doing it, 255 00:14:12,990 --> 00:14:16,170 and sometimes we're behind the eight ball and sometimes we're out of the game. 256 00:14:16,905 --> 00:14:20,354 It just depends and but having strong conviction that you're on the right 257 00:14:20,354 --> 00:14:22,334 track is it keeps us moving forward. 258 00:14:22,334 --> 00:14:23,834 So it's should, yeah. 259 00:14:23,834 --> 00:14:24,854 I, I'm optimistic. 260 00:14:24,854 --> 00:14:25,454 I'm sort of bullish. 261 00:14:25,454 --> 00:14:31,454 I don't look, it should improve the amount of work lawyers have to do too. 262 00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:31,665 Right? 263 00:14:31,665 --> 00:14:36,555 There's so much unvended work that corporates have that now an associate 264 00:14:36,555 --> 00:14:37,875 can go after, a partner go after. 265 00:14:39,224 --> 00:14:41,084 I don't see it ever making the industry smaller. 266 00:14:41,084 --> 00:14:45,435 If anything, I think a good gen AI use case expands opportunity and growth. 267 00:14:45,464 --> 00:14:49,035 We worked backwards from, from the problem we were looking at like 268 00:14:49,035 --> 00:14:53,655 how can we streamline operations and unlock new markets with this? 269 00:14:53,714 --> 00:14:57,584 And so we were looking at like our client base and a lot of the population 270 00:14:57,584 --> 00:15:01,365 of America that, that maybe need legal services, but it's just out of reach. 271 00:15:01,365 --> 00:15:04,905 And we found that there are like three key things that keep vast market segments 272 00:15:05,204 --> 00:15:07,305 out of even approaching legal services. 273 00:15:07,935 --> 00:15:11,474 Time, mobility and money are just like the three things that 80, that are 274 00:15:11,474 --> 00:15:15,015 completely out of reach for 80% of the population that could use a lawyer, right? 275 00:15:15,795 --> 00:15:20,295 And so we thought, well, when you do, when a regular person goes to get legal 276 00:15:20,295 --> 00:15:24,314 services, a lot of the cost and time is front loaded in and just figuring 277 00:15:24,314 --> 00:15:25,635 out like, what does this person need? 278 00:15:25,635 --> 00:15:26,895 What is their situation? 279 00:15:26,895 --> 00:15:28,635 How can I help them as an attorney? 280 00:15:28,635 --> 00:15:28,875 Right? 281 00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:33,209 So the, the use case that we, that we approached, we, we realized like 282 00:15:33,449 --> 00:15:35,880 at, at first contact, it's six hours. 283 00:15:35,939 --> 00:15:39,089 It's a six hour interview for like, okay, hi, my name is attorney and you 284 00:15:39,089 --> 00:15:40,560 are such great, thanks for coming in. 285 00:15:40,589 --> 00:15:41,640 What, what's going on today? 286 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:42,990 And we're gonna write all this down and figure it out. 287 00:15:43,949 --> 00:15:46,949 And, and we, and every one of those conversations follows 288 00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:48,569 a pattern that is unique too. 289 00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:50,699 The practice or, or the situation, right? 290 00:15:50,699 --> 00:15:51,329 And we thought, well. 291 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:52,530 What if? 292 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,490 What if we could, what if we could apply some AI there to ask, ask the 293 00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:59,850 questions, but not according to a script or maybe according to a script, 294 00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:02,340 but better than following a script like a customer service chat bot. 295 00:16:03,150 --> 00:16:05,550 What if it could actually answer a lot of the tertiary questions that 296 00:16:05,550 --> 00:16:09,090 come up in that conversation that an attorney, that answer for you? 297 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,980 We've all sat for the AI presentation when we talk about how AI is streamlining 298 00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:17,130 things and it's making things run faster, and what does that mean 299 00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:19,080 for associate development, right? 300 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,939 What does it mean for staffing in terms of. 301 00:16:21,315 --> 00:16:22,665 Retention we're hiring. 302 00:16:22,665 --> 00:16:26,985 And so, you know, to your point, I mean, I think there is going to be a shift 303 00:16:26,985 --> 00:16:28,755 in the market with respect to demand. 304 00:16:28,905 --> 00:16:30,555 How many heads are you going to need? 305 00:16:30,585 --> 00:16:34,515 Does it mean that suddenly law firms will be able to engage in more legal work? 306 00:16:34,665 --> 00:16:34,935 Right? 307 00:16:34,935 --> 00:16:39,615 Because now they've freed up some of the, I I, I say that, and I have 308 00:16:39,615 --> 00:16:43,305 shared this story before because I think it bred a certain skillset. 309 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,020 People put their typing speed on their resume. 310 00:16:46,020 --> 00:16:47,730 It was something that was really important. 311 00:16:47,730 --> 00:16:51,210 And even as an attorney, it mattered if you could type, because it was such 312 00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:55,320 an integral skillset for those that were coming in with the technological 313 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,090 shift, just using computers, right? 314 00:16:57,780 --> 00:17:00,960 You had to have chron copies of everything and everything was in 315 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,440 paper, and you had a paper file and you had to carry it to court. 316 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,069 And what if you dropped something and it was a disaster in a lot of ways, right? 317 00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:12,450 No one cares about typing speed anymore, but the industry is still here. 318 00:17:13,004 --> 00:17:14,114 We're still all working. 319 00:17:14,114 --> 00:17:16,875 We're still delivering services and we're still doing a great job. 320 00:17:16,875 --> 00:17:20,175 And I don't think that bringing in the computer and getting 321 00:17:20,175 --> 00:17:23,444 rid of the typewriter, for example, hurt us in any way. 322 00:17:23,474 --> 00:17:25,454 Even though it made us a whole lot faster. 323 00:17:25,935 --> 00:17:28,935 We're not hiring less people or any of that. 324 00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:30,735 We're just doing more work because it's faster. 325 00:17:31,155 --> 00:17:33,435 I mean, I hate to say that out loud 'cause I think all of our industry 326 00:17:33,435 --> 00:17:36,675 experts are saying, oh, we're gonna need less associates possibly, or. 327 00:17:36,975 --> 00:17:39,794 There might be some stagnation in the development of people 328 00:17:39,794 --> 00:17:43,695 because now they're not gonna pour over a document review, right? 329 00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:46,125 I mean, I can type 120 a minute. 330 00:17:46,784 --> 00:17:48,615 I don't think it changes my career anymore. 331 00:17:48,675 --> 00:17:53,385 If you as an, an organization, as a firm, as a full service 332 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:57,375 firm believe in this direction of travel, let's just put the partner 333 00:17:57,375 --> 00:17:58,875 consensus to one side for a moment. 334 00:17:58,995 --> 00:18:03,945 If you do believe in this direction of travel, you are effectively. 335 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,900 Having to rebuild every practice area and every service that you provide to 336 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:15,030 every different type of client that you currently service from the ground 337 00:18:15,030 --> 00:18:23,580 up, it's like trying to build 10, 15, 20, 50 startups all at the same time. 338 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,050 Building one is difficult, building 50. 339 00:18:28,695 --> 00:18:33,495 That's a huge lift, particularly for those that have very 340 00:18:33,495 --> 00:18:35,235 little experience in doing so. 341 00:18:36,254 --> 00:18:41,085 So I think this is where there is a potential advantage for the mid-market 342 00:18:41,355 --> 00:18:46,095 and SME firms, the specialist firms that focus on one very specific area. 343 00:18:46,965 --> 00:18:50,355 And if you think about like some of the most successful technology, 344 00:18:51,014 --> 00:18:51,885 I mean, where did they start? 345 00:18:52,155 --> 00:18:54,855 They started in very specific. 346 00:18:55,514 --> 00:18:58,695 Areas before they became the behemoths that they're today. 347 00:18:58,695 --> 00:19:03,555 Think about Airbnb and renting out rooms in San Francisco. 348 00:19:03,615 --> 00:19:07,065 Think about Uber and private limos. 349 00:19:07,274 --> 00:19:09,225 Think about Amazon's secondhand books. 350 00:19:09,225 --> 00:19:12,915 You know, they're all, they all start in a very focused and specific need. 351 00:19:13,695 --> 00:19:17,325 So I think that's one of the challenges that big law faces. 352 00:19:17,475 --> 00:19:18,284 Perhaps the biggest one. 353 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:22,375 Our end of the spectrum, we're intrigued by the companies that are. 354 00:19:23,625 --> 00:19:28,695 Starting today as a pure technology company with no law firm, no lawyer around 355 00:19:28,695 --> 00:19:33,555 the table, thinking through how they deliver some value prop along kind of the, 356 00:19:33,555 --> 00:19:35,745 the, the value chain of legal services. 357 00:19:35,775 --> 00:19:40,245 And maybe at the end of the line there's an attorney as, as needed and, and you 358 00:19:40,245 --> 00:19:44,130 know, we're entering a new world or paradigm where there's some shifting in, 359 00:19:44,235 --> 00:19:46,305 in kind of regulatory expectations here. 360 00:19:46,815 --> 00:19:50,475 And do you need to be an attorney to own a law firm? 361 00:19:50,595 --> 00:19:51,885 And some of those. 362 00:19:52,245 --> 00:19:55,605 They've been breaking down internationally and they're starting to break down in, 363 00:19:55,665 --> 00:20:00,375 in certain states, and it's, it's a fascinating time and we've been kicking 364 00:20:00,375 --> 00:20:04,335 the can of how do we like organize around this and how do we talk about it? 365 00:20:04,335 --> 00:20:07,845 And one of the things we, we talked about is the law firm 2.0, 366 00:20:07,845 --> 00:20:11,790 as we call it, doesn't start with a partner or managing partner. 367 00:20:12,014 --> 00:20:15,165 It start, it starts with a line of code, like it's a 368 00:20:15,165 --> 00:20:16,695 technology company at its ethos. 369 00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:20,880 Then it thinks through at the end, how do I provide that strategic level 370 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,530 of guidance, that advisory, that that consultative approach to clients. 371 00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:30,210 And so that's what we're intrigued by with this concept of law Firm 2.0. 372 00:20:30,210 --> 00:20:33,330 And you know, as we think about the labs that we just talked about, or 373 00:20:33,330 --> 00:20:37,620 we think about our, our core fund, you know, we'd be disappointed if. 374 00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:41,880 Over half of our capital is not deployed in some version or concepts 375 00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:45,000 of these types of models, and they're, they're baby steps to get there. 376 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,990 And we'll, we'll play along that spectrum, but you know, this is the future and 377 00:20:48,990 --> 00:20:50,160 this is what we think about all day. 378 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,770 What'll be interesting is as we start to build truly automated workflows 379 00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:59,580 from start to finish now it may be a very, very narrow workflow. 380 00:21:00,314 --> 00:21:00,584 Right. 381 00:21:01,185 --> 00:21:02,445 But they, they will grow. 382 00:21:02,504 --> 00:21:03,645 They will grow, right? 383 00:21:03,645 --> 00:21:06,524 It's gonna get more and more, um, you know, more and more powerful. 384 00:21:06,615 --> 00:21:08,685 That's when I think the whole risk and insurance thing comes in. 385 00:21:08,895 --> 00:21:11,895 But even so, you could argue that law firms still have it under their 386 00:21:11,895 --> 00:21:15,314 umbrella, and it'll be down to the law firm or any consultants they can bring 387 00:21:15,314 --> 00:21:22,334 in to, you know, sort of do pen testing effectively, to, um, you know, to make 388 00:21:22,334 --> 00:21:23,745 sure that it works completely fine. 389 00:21:23,925 --> 00:21:26,445 But yeah, I mean, for me, this is, this has always been the battle. 390 00:21:26,805 --> 00:21:30,465 Most lawyers, most professionals, they see technology and they go, great. 391 00:21:30,465 --> 00:21:33,015 How can that add to what I do already? 392 00:21:33,645 --> 00:21:38,025 How that, how can that finesse or take a little bit of a bother outta my life? 393 00:21:38,715 --> 00:21:38,985 All right? 394 00:21:38,985 --> 00:21:40,665 They're the center of the universe, right? 395 00:21:42,345 --> 00:21:46,970 If that is all we do with AI now, then nothing's gonna change at all. 396 00:21:47,625 --> 00:21:49,815 It goes back to, I dunno if we were probably at this point before, it 397 00:21:49,815 --> 00:21:54,555 becomes the IKEA catalog situation where you get your, your various 398 00:21:54,555 --> 00:21:58,365 shelving units and cushions and rugs and throws and all of this kind of stuff. 399 00:21:58,725 --> 00:21:59,655 And it's very prudent. 400 00:21:59,655 --> 00:22:04,425 It's very nice and it greatly increases the comfort of that person and why not 401 00:22:04,425 --> 00:22:07,485 people like to be comfortable, but it doesn't change fundamentally anything. 402 00:22:07,485 --> 00:22:10,245 You're not local, boozy at completely redesigning the building. 403 00:22:10,665 --> 00:22:13,185 You know, you don't change your one bedroom flat. 404 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:15,000 Into a machine for living. 405 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:18,750 As busier said, you know, we're fundamentally still in the same world 406 00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:21,030 with some decorations from ikea, right. 407 00:22:21,030 --> 00:22:22,530 Bought out a catalog and then installed. 408 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:26,909 Things only change once you start to automate whole streams. 409 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,860 And I think that's, and this, I think this is incredibly difficult for 410 00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:35,340 professionals, particularly lawyers, to, to get their heads around because 411 00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:40,290 it's just like, yes, you are not gonna own everything any longer. 412 00:22:41,325 --> 00:22:43,995 You might be able to earn the output and make money from it, but 413 00:22:43,995 --> 00:22:45,555 you will not own those workflows. 414 00:22:45,615 --> 00:22:50,445 You had some thoughts on AI hallucinations in legal work and like, what is the 415 00:22:50,445 --> 00:22:56,264 current state of AI hallucinations and like, challenges around detection? 416 00:22:56,355 --> 00:23:03,135 By this time next year in legal, it would be 90, 98%, uh, fixed investing. 417 00:23:03,195 --> 00:23:04,125 Investing. 418 00:23:04,575 --> 00:23:08,085 So I'm really scared 'cause I wanna, I wanna do, I have a project. 419 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:14,700 Venture at the moment looking at how to do evals and I'm not the only one. 420 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:18,420 There are a couple of others passionate people that wanna fix this problem. 421 00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:21,240 Uh, 'cause I also see it as an infrastructure problem. 422 00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:28,415 But if you try and, uh, bet against models improving, it is a losing be. 423 00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:31,020 So that's the scary thing to me. 424 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:38,100 I ran tests, so when I stumbled upon this, I ran tests on, uh, open source 425 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:42,450 models and they were horrible on legal data, but the frontier models, 426 00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:46,740 the closed models, the cloud models, they were constantly improving. 427 00:23:47,220 --> 00:23:50,370 And now with their hybrid architecture, whereby. 428 00:23:51,209 --> 00:23:54,449 Some of them are doing web search, you know, under the hood, 429 00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:56,669 others are routing or whatever. 430 00:23:56,730 --> 00:24:01,169 Maybe they're just using straight up index search in the backend and then have a 431 00:24:01,169 --> 00:24:06,330 model go in and some, I don't know what they're doing, but slowly but surely. 432 00:24:06,735 --> 00:24:09,225 Uh, hallucinations has been reducing. 433 00:24:09,315 --> 00:24:14,505 Now, what does a judge think a hallucination is? 434 00:24:14,595 --> 00:24:18,885 It's a totally different story than when a model hallucinates. 435 00:24:18,975 --> 00:24:22,005 A lot of times we think about, you know, you're too poor to afford attorneys 436 00:24:22,005 --> 00:24:23,835 so that you, one is provided for you. 437 00:24:23,835 --> 00:24:24,045 Right? 438 00:24:24,045 --> 00:24:28,980 The law and order St. Um, but that's not the case in civil ca in civil 439 00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:32,580 law, there's no, uh, constitutional right to an attorney in a civil case. 440 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,200 And people don't understand that. 441 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,790 Civil cases can be as life impacting as a criminal case. 442 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,340 So you can get up to a year in prison. 443 00:24:41,370 --> 00:24:45,660 In a civil case, you can lose your kids in, um, custody, family matters. 444 00:24:45,930 --> 00:24:47,640 Uh, divorce, you can lose your home. 445 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:47,850 Right? 446 00:24:47,850 --> 00:24:49,470 Foreclosure, eviction. 447 00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:52,139 You can have your paycheck taken away, right? 448 00:24:52,139 --> 00:24:53,760 If they, if you have a debt issue. 449 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,050 And so there's all of these things that are bubbling up in civil court that 450 00:24:58,050 --> 00:25:00,600 are hugely impacting people's lives. 451 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,540 Civil court's actually, where they're spending a lot of time, most people 452 00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:06,270 are interacting with the justice system through civil court, and they 453 00:25:06,270 --> 00:25:07,230 don't have the right to an attorney. 454 00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:08,985 So some statistics, right? 455 00:25:08,985 --> 00:25:13,770 So the Legal Services Corporation is the entity funded by Congress to provide 456 00:25:13,770 --> 00:25:15,480 for, for legal aid across the country. 457 00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:19,379 There are LSC funded legal aid organizations in every state. 458 00:25:20,430 --> 00:25:24,600 And they have, um, an interesting project called, or, uh, um, a 459 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,970 funding stream called the tig. 460 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,260 So technology innovation grants special money set aside to do 461 00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:35,250 innovative things with technology to impact, uh, the justice gap. 462 00:25:35,850 --> 00:25:37,200 So the justice gap in general, right? 463 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:37,920 So, um. 464 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,940 2022 study from the Legal Services Corporation. 465 00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:44,940 It's, uh, literally called the Justice Gap Report. 466 00:25:45,420 --> 00:25:49,890 Um, something like 92% of people who are low income have a legal issue 467 00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:51,780 and they can't or don't address it. 468 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,850 So people are sitting there. 469 00:25:54,780 --> 00:25:56,430 Hundreds of millions of people. 470 00:25:56,430 --> 00:26:00,720 I think I did a little statistics with the census, something like 471 00:26:00,930 --> 00:26:05,520 potentially a hundred million people are sitting around with life changing 472 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,030 potentially legal issues, and they're not dealing with them because they 473 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,230 don't have money for an attorney. 474 00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:14,100 They don't know that it's a legal issue or they go to legal aid and there's not 475 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:16,889 enough help there to actually get them. 476 00:26:16,889 --> 00:26:18,930 The free lawyers that we've provided. 477 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,050 Through federal funding streams or local funding streams. 478 00:26:22,050 --> 00:26:25,560 So it's really, a lot of people are dealing with the justice gap 479 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,620 and technology is around to help. 480 00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:30,810 And so that's what I've spent my career working on. 481 00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:34,560 I think the starting point is to be realistic about where the technology 482 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,475 is now, but also very cognizant of where the technology's going and, 483 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,170 and we've gone, you know, both these places in our conversation, right? 484 00:26:43,170 --> 00:26:46,350 Like ai, it's not doing the high value stuff right now. 485 00:26:47,055 --> 00:26:49,665 There's a possible world where it does do that. 486 00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:54,465 So then the question is, strategically for an organization, how do I leverage 487 00:26:54,645 --> 00:27:00,915 what it can do now and build a blueprint for where the technology's going? 488 00:27:01,514 --> 00:27:05,325 So an example that I think I and probably others use all the 489 00:27:05,325 --> 00:27:07,605 time is that of Netflix, right? 490 00:27:07,605 --> 00:27:12,610 When, when Netflix built its company, it was on version one of the internet. 491 00:27:13,485 --> 00:27:14,595 There was no streaming. 492 00:27:14,595 --> 00:27:16,605 Broadband wasn't happening. 493 00:27:16,605 --> 00:27:20,235 Like the technical capabilities were not there for an on 494 00:27:20,235 --> 00:27:22,965 demand video delivery service. 495 00:27:22,965 --> 00:27:23,295 Right. 496 00:27:24,135 --> 00:27:29,325 But strategically, they built their company to win in that world. 497 00:27:29,699 --> 00:27:31,139 That was very quickly coming. 498 00:27:31,169 --> 00:27:32,939 So what do you need to win? 499 00:27:32,939 --> 00:27:34,379 In a streaming world? 500 00:27:34,649 --> 00:27:35,790 You need a customer base. 501 00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:37,949 You need algorithms for recommendation. 502 00:27:37,949 --> 00:27:41,879 You need to get people used to clicking on websites in order to 503 00:27:42,179 --> 00:27:45,689 navigate their VI video rentals rather than going into a store, you 504 00:27:45,689 --> 00:27:47,459 need all these different capacities. 505 00:27:47,459 --> 00:27:50,760 You need a inventory catalog, you need licensing agreements 506 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:51,659 with different companies. 507 00:27:51,959 --> 00:27:55,500 All this stuff is necessary for the streaming world. 508 00:27:56,205 --> 00:27:57,195 But what did they do? 509 00:27:57,195 --> 00:28:02,085 They built a mail order business because that's what this technology could support 510 00:28:02,085 --> 00:28:06,765 at the time, and it wasn't as good as brick and mortar in some ways, but they 511 00:28:06,765 --> 00:28:11,145 made use of what the technology could do in the present in order to win the future. 512 00:28:11,745 --> 00:28:16,035 And that's really why I think it's important that law firms look at what can 513 00:28:16,035 --> 00:28:22,365 AI do right now and how can we use that as a blueprint in order to win a future? 514 00:28:22,754 --> 00:28:25,845 Where AI can lawyer just as well as people can. 515 00:28:25,875 --> 00:28:26,264 Yeah. 516 00:28:26,264 --> 00:28:29,685 And you know what's another interesting aspect of Netflix and what they were 517 00:28:29,685 --> 00:28:34,544 able to accomplish is they started streaming other people's content. 518 00:28:35,024 --> 00:28:35,145 Yeah. 519 00:28:35,145 --> 00:28:40,305 And then they, they saw the writing on the wall of, you know, Disney's 520 00:28:40,305 --> 00:28:45,524 and NBC and all these content producers creating their own networks. 521 00:28:45,524 --> 00:28:48,315 And they got ahead of that and started doing original content. 522 00:28:48,959 --> 00:28:55,230 So, yeah, kudos to Netflix for, you know, seeing the future and 523 00:28:55,230 --> 00:28:56,879 preparing for it proactively. 524 00:28:56,879 --> 00:29:00,959 They didn't wait until these content providers turned the 525 00:29:00,959 --> 00:29:07,080 screws on the licensing agreements to make their business unviable. 526 00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:12,389 They started, started early and got ahead of it, and have been wildly 527 00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:13,740 successful as a result of that. 528 00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:16,560 It's what every successful company has done. 529 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,459 You look at Uber. 530 00:29:18,105 --> 00:29:22,035 They didn't build their company in order to create a gig economy. 531 00:29:22,065 --> 00:29:23,385 They happened to do that. 532 00:29:23,805 --> 00:29:27,315 They built their company because of self-driving vehicles. 533 00:29:27,315 --> 00:29:29,655 That is the future we're moving into, right? 534 00:29:29,655 --> 00:29:31,575 That's where the profitability is, right? 535 00:29:31,575 --> 00:29:34,125 So you look to the future, where are we going? 536 00:29:34,545 --> 00:29:38,205 But what do I need to build in the present in order to win that future? 537 00:29:38,205 --> 00:29:43,845 Because I need a customer base in order to win the self-driving fleet. 538 00:29:44,565 --> 00:29:45,885 Possible future, right? 539 00:29:45,885 --> 00:29:50,595 So what do law firms need to build right now to win the future of AI lawyering? 540 00:29:50,895 --> 00:29:53,145 Thanks for listening to Legal Innovation Spotlight. 541 00:29:53,685 --> 00:29:57,165 If you found value in this chat, hit the subscribe button to be notified 542 00:29:57,165 --> 00:29:58,635 when we release new episodes. 543 00:29:59,175 --> 00:30:01,845 We'd also really appreciate it if you could take a moment to rate 544 00:30:01,845 --> 00:30:04,485 us and leave us a review wherever you're listening right now. 545 00:30:05,055 --> 00:30:07,754 Your feedback helps us provide you with top-notch content. -->