1 00:00:02,606 --> 00:00:04,757 Patrick and Kevin, how are you this morning? 2 00:00:05,735 --> 00:00:06,567 Doing great. 3 00:00:06,567 --> 00:00:07,704 How are you, Ted? 4 00:00:08,383 --> 00:00:09,654 and awesome. 5 00:00:09,654 --> 00:00:10,634 This is a treat. 6 00:00:10,634 --> 00:00:14,117 I don't get to guests on the pod that often. 7 00:00:14,117 --> 00:00:23,402 So um it's exciting to we can have we have 50 % more banter, which is always fun. 8 00:00:24,303 --> 00:00:31,087 So I think you know, the audience, you guys are both pretty visible in the KM &I world. 9 00:00:31,087 --> 00:00:36,300 But for those that that don't know you, I've known you both for a really long time. 10 00:00:36,558 --> 00:00:46,258 I think maybe early 2010s, Patrick, you were CKO at OD, Ogletree Deacons, and Kevin, you were running ArcKM back when we were sponsors. 11 00:00:47,178 --> 00:00:52,378 So a lot of history with you both, and I'm really excited about the conversation. 12 00:00:52,458 --> 00:00:57,398 We're going to talk about just events. 13 00:00:57,398 --> 00:00:58,778 We're going to talk about innovation. 14 00:00:58,778 --> 00:01:05,158 We're going talk about the events you guys have coming up in, God, really, what is that, six weeks? 15 00:01:05,298 --> 00:01:05,776 Yeah. 16 00:01:05,776 --> 00:01:06,816 Eight weeks? 17 00:01:06,877 --> 00:01:07,958 But who's counting? 18 00:01:07,958 --> 00:01:08,838 Yeah. 19 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:11,640 Yeah. 20 00:01:12,442 --> 00:01:16,805 We can hear the tick of every moment here, but yes, uh eight weeks. 21 00:01:16,805 --> 00:01:18,226 Yeah, that's of yesterday. 22 00:01:18,816 --> 00:01:22,932 And you guys have a new event coming up that we're going to talk about. 23 00:01:22,932 --> 00:01:25,897 But before we do, let's get you guys introduced. 24 00:01:25,897 --> 00:01:29,462 um Patrick, why don't you go first? 25 00:01:30,296 --> 00:01:30,856 Yeah, thanks. 26 00:01:30,856 --> 00:01:32,108 Patrick DiDomenico here. 27 00:01:32,108 --> 00:01:32,968 Hello, everybody. 28 00:01:32,968 --> 00:01:36,566 uh Let's see, where to begin. 29 00:01:36,566 --> 00:01:45,459 I used to practice law for about nine years, uh switched out of practicing in the early to mid 2000s. 30 00:01:45,459 --> 00:01:57,330 I think it was 2005, actually, uh into knowledge management, innovation, technology, at the firm that I practiced at, uh which is called Givens Selle Deo. 31 00:01:57,330 --> 00:01:58,270 And then... 32 00:01:58,424 --> 00:02:02,375 continued to do that type of work for the last 20 years. 33 00:02:02,375 --> 00:02:10,917 In fact, this is my 20th year, 2025 here, uh doing KM Innovation Technology, et cetera. 34 00:02:10,917 --> 00:02:23,541 uh Along the way, I did the CKO and Chief Innovation Officer jobs at various firms like Ogletree Deacons, as you mentioned, and as a double voice in Plimpton for a couple of 35 00:02:23,541 --> 00:02:24,541 years. 36 00:02:24,641 --> 00:02:28,142 My most recent firm was Jackson Lewis, where I was the 37 00:02:28,142 --> 00:02:30,042 chief innovation officer. 38 00:02:30,122 --> 00:02:33,082 And then in, what was it, 2022? 39 00:02:33,322 --> 00:02:34,422 It's a blur at this point. 40 00:02:34,422 --> 00:02:38,842 Last few years, I went out on my own, I started consulting. 41 00:02:39,482 --> 00:02:45,162 So doing all the fun stuff that I was doing at individual firms, helping other firms do that. 42 00:02:45,162 --> 00:02:53,922 Also in-house legal departments and legal tech companies have been advising and investing in legal tech companies for number of years now. 43 00:02:54,062 --> 00:02:58,605 ah And then of course started the KM &I conference uh in 2023. 44 00:02:58,605 --> 00:03:05,930 And Ted, I know you are very familiar with it because you are our very first sponsor, which we appreciate. 45 00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:13,175 And this year partnering with Kevin, who I've known for 20 of those years, um spun up Legal Tech Connect. 46 00:03:13,175 --> 00:03:14,906 And I know we're going to be talking about that as well. 47 00:03:14,906 --> 00:03:17,057 So ah excited to be here. 48 00:03:17,057 --> 00:03:18,230 Thanks for having us, Ted. 49 00:03:18,230 --> 00:03:19,915 Yeah, absolutely. 50 00:03:19,915 --> 00:03:20,875 Kevin? 51 00:03:22,064 --> 00:03:26,815 Yeah, I think that 20 year reference um actually fits like a glove. 52 00:03:26,815 --> 00:03:40,860 I, in 2005, uh joined the core team at the ARC Group, which was known for its flagship event, the KM Legal Conference, which initially ran in, I think, September of 2005 in 53 00:03:40,860 --> 00:03:41,460 Chicago. 54 00:03:41,460 --> 00:03:46,201 um So I spent about 17 years with ARC. 55 00:03:46,201 --> 00:03:49,092 uh So we produced 56 00:03:49,675 --> 00:03:51,366 a number of practice management events. 57 00:03:51,366 --> 00:04:01,801 We had a BI conference, a competitive intelligence conference, a long running law firm libraries conference and community that we sort of fostered. 58 00:04:02,122 --> 00:04:11,176 yeah, Patrick and Joshua Fireman and Ron Friedman, think, you know, initially it was Joshua and Ron that were co-chairing the KM legal conference. 59 00:04:11,176 --> 00:04:16,129 And then several years later, we moved it to New York and it was Patrick and Joshua. 60 00:04:16,349 --> 00:04:17,610 we have been working together. 61 00:04:17,610 --> 00:04:18,438 uh 62 00:04:18,438 --> 00:04:21,818 almost all of those 20 years, at least 15 of them. 63 00:04:22,038 --> 00:04:29,618 So 17 years as program director at our group, just shy of three years with inside practice. 64 00:04:29,718 --> 00:04:40,198 And then as Patrick mentioned, more recently joined forces and something we've been talking about for many years to actually kind of formalize our working relationship and 65 00:04:40,198 --> 00:04:41,518 collaborate and do this together. 66 00:04:41,518 --> 00:04:44,298 And it's been a lot of fun right out of the gate. 67 00:04:45,134 --> 00:04:45,904 Good stuff, man. 68 00:04:45,904 --> 00:04:46,464 Good stuff. 69 00:04:46,464 --> 00:04:53,616 Well, yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of all the events that you both have been involved with. 70 00:04:53,616 --> 00:04:57,958 I was an ARKKM sponsor in the early days. 71 00:04:57,958 --> 00:05:03,549 um And, you know, we were a sponsor in the ARKBI event. 72 00:05:03,549 --> 00:05:05,210 I don't know if there were multiple. 73 00:05:05,210 --> 00:05:06,640 There was one in New York. 74 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:07,581 It was really good. 75 00:05:07,581 --> 00:05:10,982 It was small, but it was really good. 76 00:05:10,982 --> 00:05:12,552 I think we presented, actually. 77 00:05:12,552 --> 00:05:20,945 ran at least eight or nine years, that BI event, which was interesting, interestingly kind of a precursor to the AI stuff, right? 78 00:05:20,945 --> 00:05:29,627 The predictive analytics and yeah, that was, it was very finance focused, I think in general, but that was a great event. 79 00:05:29,627 --> 00:05:31,098 And it was a little bit on the intimate. 80 00:05:31,098 --> 00:05:36,489 It was usually 50 to 80 people, you know, like a lot of the archivants were. 81 00:05:37,730 --> 00:05:38,389 Yeah. 82 00:05:38,389 --> 00:05:51,155 mean, I think probably most of our listeners are familiar with your KM &I event, but Patrick, why don't you just kind of give an overview for those that aren't? 83 00:05:51,716 --> 00:05:52,906 Like, what's the purpose? 84 00:05:52,906 --> 00:05:54,097 Who's the audience? 85 00:05:54,097 --> 00:05:56,078 What kind of speakers do you have? 86 00:05:56,078 --> 00:05:57,088 How long is it? 87 00:05:57,088 --> 00:05:58,439 All that sort of stuff. 88 00:05:58,671 --> 00:06:00,351 Yeah, yeah, the basics. 89 00:06:00,891 --> 00:06:03,031 Yeah, so we're going into our third year. 90 00:06:03,031 --> 00:06:04,811 So we started in 2023. 91 00:06:04,811 --> 00:06:07,491 We had a great first year. 92 00:06:07,491 --> 00:06:13,891 sold out, which we were very happy about because I was very nervous to spin up my own conference. 93 00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:18,011 But yeah, we did great the first and second year. 94 00:06:18,011 --> 00:06:23,691 We grew from the first year to about 230 attendees and sold out last year. 95 00:06:23,911 --> 00:06:27,231 And this year, we're headed for another sellout, I think. 96 00:06:27,342 --> 00:06:29,803 which is gonna be great, a brand new venue. 97 00:06:29,803 --> 00:06:40,986 But the gist of the conference is in some ways it's a um tribute to what Kevin had done for many, years at ArcKM. 98 00:06:41,446 --> 00:06:49,218 It's a two day event similar to ArcKM uh bringing together all the leaders in knowledge management and innovation. 99 00:06:49,218 --> 00:06:52,809 Of course we sort of tacked down the innovation aspect of it, right? 100 00:06:52,809 --> 00:06:55,510 So it's not just ArcKM. 101 00:06:55,752 --> 00:06:59,084 This is knowledge management and innovation for legal. 102 00:06:59,624 --> 00:07:09,630 you know, I think that's, I know it was intentional, but I think it was a good idea because a lot of the knowledge management folks in the last, I don't know, 10 or so years 103 00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:17,785 have started to, um you know, sort of do double, double time, double work in innovation, right? 104 00:07:17,785 --> 00:07:20,617 And I know you've done some research on this topic, Ted. 105 00:07:20,617 --> 00:07:22,988 You, you've analyzed the 106 00:07:22,988 --> 00:07:25,640 the rise of the innovation professional in law firms. 107 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,323 And there's been a great increase in the number of people with innovation in their title. 108 00:07:30,463 --> 00:07:42,691 And, you know, I don't know if we predicted it or if we reacted to it, maybe a little bit of both, but because knowledge management and innovation folks tend to uh gather together 109 00:07:42,691 --> 00:07:49,416 and sort of uh some do both of the uh types of work that each other does. 110 00:07:49,416 --> 00:07:51,327 Sometimes it's the same leader, right? 111 00:07:51,327 --> 00:07:52,558 We often see 112 00:07:52,609 --> 00:07:59,201 chief knowledge and innovation officer as the head of innovation and knowledge management at law firms. 113 00:07:59,322 --> 00:08:02,603 So we combined those concepts. 114 00:08:02,923 --> 00:08:05,584 It's very much a peer driven uh event. 115 00:08:05,584 --> 00:08:07,685 Again, two days in New York City. 116 00:08:07,685 --> 00:08:10,486 It's October 22, 23 this year. 117 00:08:10,866 --> 00:08:16,118 And it's all about the community. 118 00:08:16,118 --> 00:08:21,642 speaking of which, one of the things that's very important to us about that community is that there's 119 00:08:21,642 --> 00:08:24,303 As we like to say, there's no second class citizens. 120 00:08:24,303 --> 00:08:39,017 We really recognize that everybody, uh sponsors, vendors, law firm folks, in-house folks, we're all members of this community and we treat everybody uh equally at the event because 121 00:08:39,017 --> 00:08:46,889 we realize that collaboration and cooperation among all members of that community is very important to success in all respects. 122 00:08:46,889 --> 00:08:49,760 So we can get into some of the details of 123 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:50,931 some of the sessions. 124 00:08:50,931 --> 00:09:01,243 uh You've been to it ever since it started, so you know the vibe and the sort of uh way we do things, but happy to sort of expound on any of those things. 125 00:09:01,243 --> 00:09:07,158 And of course, this year we're co-locating it with our new event, which I know we'll talk about in a little bit as well. 126 00:09:07,158 --> 00:09:07,498 Yeah. 127 00:09:07,498 --> 00:09:11,311 Well, you know, it's interesting about treating everyone as equals. 128 00:09:11,311 --> 00:09:19,986 The reality is there's a significant amount of cross pollination between those worlds, especially law firm and vendor. 129 00:09:20,007 --> 00:09:27,812 I mean, you see people move from the law firm side to the vendor side, then back. 130 00:09:27,812 --> 00:09:30,474 You know, you have people who are long time vendors. 131 00:09:30,474 --> 00:09:31,955 Glenn Laforce is a good example. 132 00:09:31,955 --> 00:09:34,957 Um, you know, he was the global head of sales at Handshake. 133 00:09:34,957 --> 00:09:36,178 Now he's the 134 00:09:36,403 --> 00:09:43,868 He was, he was in a KM role at Sherman, now CKIO at Holland and Knight. 135 00:09:43,868 --> 00:09:54,996 So yeah, these, these, it's these uh constituencies are fluid and they, they, and they move back and forth. 136 00:09:55,217 --> 00:10:03,392 Kevin, you want to maybe give us a little overview of Legal Tech Connect and what, the goals and objectives are there. 137 00:10:04,654 --> 00:10:12,949 Yeah, yeah, as Patrick mentioned, The KM &I event is very much peer-to-peer, law firm peer-to-peer in terms of the content. 138 00:10:12,949 --> 00:10:19,963 And it's uh largely about what's happening within law firms and within KM and innovation departments. 139 00:10:19,963 --> 00:10:24,795 think an easy way to describe LegalTech Connect is it's kind of the inverse. 140 00:10:24,795 --> 00:10:26,006 It's kind of the external. 141 00:10:26,006 --> 00:10:32,709 It's looking at uh market forces, the regulatory environment, and of course, product innovation. 142 00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:33,666 So it's 143 00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:44,326 the spotlight is expressly on the product developers, the solution providers, uh their origin stories, what they're solving for. 144 00:10:44,326 --> 00:10:50,263 So I think it'll be a fascinating uh thread of discussion around what's driving innovation. 145 00:10:50,263 --> 00:11:01,538 And I think it kind of opens the aperture up a little bit to have a really dynamic and broad view of the market and kind of the market pressures kind of. 146 00:11:02,096 --> 00:11:05,387 hitting law firms from all angles really, in a competitive sense. 147 00:11:05,387 --> 00:11:13,749 um So it's really a broad view of emerging trends, the regulatory environment, and then again, that innovation theme on the development side. 148 00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:21,891 So I think it brings together cohorts that aren't normally typically in the same room at the same time. 149 00:11:22,032 --> 00:11:28,353 One of those being the investment community, which a tip of the hat to TLTF uh for tapping into that energy. 150 00:11:28,353 --> 00:11:30,576 And they've got one of... 151 00:11:30,576 --> 00:11:32,737 you know, the preeminent events in the industry. 152 00:11:32,737 --> 00:11:37,230 And we thought, you know what, that makes a lot of sense to open the door to that community as well. 153 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:41,212 So uh it should be a very lively couple of days. 154 00:11:41,513 --> 00:11:43,544 you know, you mentioned cross-pollination. 155 00:11:43,544 --> 00:11:50,988 I think that will be kind of the magic, uh particularly on the networking side, which will all be completely cross-pollinated, if you will. 156 00:11:51,277 --> 00:12:01,755 Yeah, I've been, um I didn't go the first year to TLTF, but I've been, they started around the same time you did um with KM &I, Patrick. 157 00:12:01,755 --> 00:12:04,182 was 2022. 158 00:12:04,182 --> 00:12:04,702 that's right. 159 00:12:04,702 --> 00:12:05,533 might have started. 160 00:12:05,533 --> 00:12:06,803 Are they in their fourth year? 161 00:12:06,803 --> 00:12:08,884 Is this their fourth year this coming? 162 00:12:09,565 --> 00:12:10,425 Yeah. 163 00:12:10,425 --> 00:12:13,616 Yeah, this is our third for Cam and I, so it must have been a year before. 164 00:12:13,616 --> 00:12:16,408 Although I think they started during the pandemic. 165 00:12:16,408 --> 00:12:17,502 I'm not sure. 166 00:12:17,502 --> 00:12:20,089 I only went for the first time last year. 167 00:12:20,089 --> 00:12:21,170 Okay, right, right. 168 00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:21,710 pandemic. 169 00:12:21,710 --> 00:12:25,829 think their first conference was in 2022 because it hit my radar late. 170 00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:32,850 I didn't make it to the first one, but I've been to the two since then and I'm going again this, this year. 171 00:12:32,850 --> 00:12:33,070 Yeah. 172 00:12:33,070 --> 00:12:34,290 And they do a great job. 173 00:12:34,290 --> 00:12:42,970 Um, it is, uh, it's an interesting mix of, you know, law firm stakeholders, investors, founders. 174 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:45,050 Um, they have some thought leaders. 175 00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:47,342 There were some academics there last year. 176 00:12:47,342 --> 00:12:51,442 as well, which again, interesting kind of mix. 177 00:12:52,302 --> 00:12:56,702 So is there, is this a cross access event? 178 00:12:56,702 --> 00:13:09,762 mean, do people from the buy a Cayman iTicket automatically get access to the LTC content or vice versa or those separate SKUs? 179 00:13:10,636 --> 00:13:12,987 Yeah, they're separate. 180 00:13:13,047 --> 00:13:15,249 Technically, they're separate conferences. 181 00:13:15,249 --> 00:13:18,609 I mean, not technically, actually, and technically, they are separate conferences. 182 00:13:18,609 --> 00:13:26,655 And by the way, you know, we were saying Legal Tech Connect, but Legal Tech Connect is the organization that Kevin and I founded. 183 00:13:26,655 --> 00:13:29,696 And the event is called Innovators and Investors. 184 00:13:29,696 --> 00:13:32,508 We just call it LTC for short because it's our first event. 185 00:13:32,508 --> 00:13:36,660 Of course, we'll have more events under the under the LTC umbrella. 186 00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:39,222 But the Innovators and Investors event. 187 00:13:39,222 --> 00:13:40,633 Yeah, it's a separate. 188 00:13:40,633 --> 00:13:43,705 conference, we found this beautiful space in New York City. 189 00:13:43,705 --> 00:13:48,509 It's called Ease Hospitality and it's right at it's on third Avenue at 40th Street. 190 00:13:48,749 --> 00:14:01,930 And, you know, a little bit sort of a opportunistic thing in some ways uh because I've been wanting to do additional events and been wanting to partner with Kevin for a long 191 00:14:01,930 --> 00:14:02,800 time. 192 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:08,074 And when we found this new venue, it's so big and beautiful. 193 00:14:08,074 --> 00:14:10,496 There's such great space there. 194 00:14:10,614 --> 00:14:12,545 We're definitely going to do KMNI there. 195 00:14:12,545 --> 00:14:16,337 And then we realized there's all this additional space. 196 00:14:16,337 --> 00:14:24,762 We might be able to do this co-located event and bring together these communities because there's so much overlap with them. 197 00:14:24,762 --> 00:14:34,067 So yes, they're separate conferences, but it's almost thinking about it as separate tracks of the same conference, if you will. 198 00:14:34,067 --> 00:14:36,508 But they are two separate tickets. 199 00:14:36,508 --> 00:14:39,554 So in the largest room, there'll be the 200 00:14:39,554 --> 00:14:43,235 the KMNI room holds about 200, 220 people. 201 00:14:43,235 --> 00:14:50,417 uh And then the second largest room will be the Legal Tech Connect uh content. 202 00:14:50,417 --> 00:14:53,438 There's another room that's gonna be sort of an overflow room. 203 00:14:54,059 --> 00:15:02,831 But those two events will have content in those rooms simultaneously ah and they are separate tickets. 204 00:15:02,831 --> 00:15:05,102 Now you can get crossover tickets if you want. 205 00:15:05,102 --> 00:15:05,774 think... 206 00:15:05,774 --> 00:15:15,654 We estimate that there'll be about 10 to 15 % of the total crowd in both events that want a crossover ticket because, you know, some people like me, right? 207 00:15:15,654 --> 00:15:24,394 I was a CKO, I'm also an investor, I do lots of different things and I think there's a good number of folks that have that diversity of interest. 208 00:15:24,554 --> 00:15:31,134 Plus there's quite frankly just a lot of great content and you know Ted, cause you're on one of these panels, you're moderating one of these panels. 209 00:15:31,134 --> 00:15:33,394 So I think there's gonna be great interest. 210 00:15:33,409 --> 00:15:36,861 In both events, the challenge with that, course, is physics. 211 00:15:36,861 --> 00:15:46,157 You can't be in two places at once, but some people will have those crossover tickets and want to pop in and out of the two sessions. 212 00:15:46,157 --> 00:15:58,486 But to Kevin's point, I think one of the best things about this is that all of the other activities, the networking, the breakfast, lunch, coffee breaks, networking parties, all 213 00:15:58,486 --> 00:16:02,378 of that stuff over the two days, I think it's about eight hours of networking. 214 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:04,821 is combined, right? 215 00:16:04,821 --> 00:16:12,634 So the content is simultaneously going on and then the networking is simultaneously going on to bring everybody together. 216 00:16:12,634 --> 00:16:19,397 So we're talking like 330 people or so um all networking together between and among themselves. 217 00:16:19,397 --> 00:16:22,228 So super excited about that aspect of it. 218 00:16:22,282 --> 00:16:28,769 Yeah, as far as the name goes, people are still going to call you LTC, the event LTC, just like they do Ilta. 219 00:16:28,769 --> 00:16:34,724 Like people don't a lot of times they don't say Ilta con I'm going to Ilta or they don't say TLTF summit. 220 00:16:34,724 --> 00:16:36,496 They say I'm going to TLTF. 221 00:16:36,616 --> 00:16:41,842 So it's just yeah, there's worse things that could happen. 222 00:16:41,842 --> 00:16:42,701 Yeah. 223 00:16:42,701 --> 00:16:43,534 Exactly. 224 00:16:43,534 --> 00:16:58,474 So capital startups, AI, regulatory change, what, you talked a little bit about it, but maybe you can drill into high level themes of the content in terms of how are you bringing 225 00:16:58,474 --> 00:16:59,994 all that together? 226 00:16:59,994 --> 00:17:03,334 Are there going to be some sessions that are investor focused? 227 00:17:03,754 --> 00:17:07,594 Are there some sessions that are going to be founder focused? 228 00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:11,434 Is there a lot of kind of blending in? 229 00:17:11,456 --> 00:17:13,920 on the agenda, what does that look like? 230 00:17:14,392 --> 00:17:15,602 Yeah, great question. 231 00:17:15,602 --> 00:17:23,444 uh I'll give you the short answer and then Kevin, if you want to expound on some of it. 232 00:17:23,444 --> 00:17:28,006 At LTC, there's basically three groupings, if you will, of content. 233 00:17:28,006 --> 00:17:33,367 The first grouping of content is for the investors and for the buyers. 234 00:17:33,367 --> 00:17:37,278 These are what we're calling solutions showcase stages, right? 235 00:17:37,278 --> 00:17:44,163 It's kind like a startup stage where uh startups and even some uh more mature companies 236 00:17:44,163 --> 00:17:47,185 get an opportunity to do a five minute pitch on stage, right? 237 00:17:47,185 --> 00:17:52,149 So telling the investors in the room and the buyers in the room what they're all about. 238 00:17:52,149 --> 00:17:55,532 Are they seeking funding for a new round? 239 00:17:55,532 --> 00:17:57,673 Are they seeking new customers? 240 00:17:57,673 --> 00:18:03,038 Do they just want to get their oh products and services out there in front of more people? 241 00:18:03,038 --> 00:18:08,023 So there'll be at least two stages, two solutions showcase stages. 242 00:18:08,023 --> 00:18:12,045 So that's one of the groups of content on that stage. 243 00:18:12,045 --> 00:18:14,246 The second group of content is 244 00:18:14,296 --> 00:18:17,838 Kind of what it's kind of advice to legal tech startups, right? 245 00:18:17,838 --> 00:18:24,442 There's sort of mentor panels and, and, um, founders journeys and these types of things. 246 00:18:24,442 --> 00:18:27,624 So we have folks like Haley Altman from Laterra, right? 247 00:18:27,624 --> 00:18:38,903 Who has, you know, her company docs that was acquired and then she was involved in lots of acquisitions and other folks like her, uh, Peter Oselin and others who are going to, uh, 248 00:18:38,903 --> 00:18:40,684 basically be, you know, 249 00:18:40,684 --> 00:18:42,325 temporary mentors to these. 250 00:18:42,325 --> 00:18:45,236 In fact, one of our panels is called the Mentors Panel. 251 00:18:45,457 --> 00:18:53,191 Advising legal tech startups, and there's a lot of them out there as we know, a lot of new ones, what it's all about to do this from soup to nuts, right? 252 00:18:53,191 --> 00:18:59,264 From founding to exit and give lots of great uh advice about that. 253 00:18:59,264 --> 00:19:06,819 And then the third grouping of content at Legal Tech Connect is, I would say it's just sort of general legal technology sessions. 254 00:19:06,819 --> 00:19:07,769 What's new in AI? 255 00:19:07,769 --> 00:19:09,346 uh 256 00:19:09,346 --> 00:19:14,172 what's going on, what's the latest, what's important, what needs to be on your radar, these types of things. 257 00:19:14,172 --> 00:19:18,038 uh So, and it's a nice balance of that type of content, I think. 258 00:19:18,038 --> 00:19:21,746 uh Happy to drill down into any of the areas. 259 00:19:21,746 --> 00:19:25,868 Kevin, I don't know if you want to expound on some of the more interesting sessions. 260 00:19:25,868 --> 00:19:27,720 uh Yeah. 261 00:19:28,126 --> 00:19:35,132 I think high level, think bringing the two events together kind of tells a broader story about what's happening in legal innovation. 262 00:19:35,132 --> 00:19:39,145 um I don't think it's really incremental, if that's the right word to use. 263 00:19:39,145 --> 00:19:46,742 I think there's market level shifts happening um that require more alignment across builders, buyers and funders. 264 00:19:46,742 --> 00:19:50,966 I think, you know, I think that's kind of the high level story. 265 00:19:50,966 --> 00:19:53,277 I think there's this gravitational pull. 266 00:19:53,277 --> 00:19:54,669 It's much wider, right? 267 00:19:54,669 --> 00:19:56,740 Investment capital flowing in. 268 00:19:56,827 --> 00:20:07,947 All of these startups that are solving, oftentimes very discreet uh challenges or exploring opportunities and shifting client expectations, that's certainly part of the 269 00:20:07,947 --> 00:20:08,838 story. 270 00:20:08,838 --> 00:20:10,309 We mentioned regulatory change. 271 00:20:10,309 --> 00:20:15,383 So all of these things are happening, uh impacting and reshaping this ecosystem. 272 00:20:15,383 --> 00:20:20,568 So I think from a high level, I think it does tell a really compelling story. 273 00:20:20,568 --> 00:20:23,276 uh 274 00:20:23,276 --> 00:20:27,229 again, the access piece and who will be in which room. 275 00:20:27,390 --> 00:20:32,083 As Patrick said, there are distinct physical limitations there. 276 00:20:32,083 --> 00:20:38,159 In fact, the Legal Tech Connect room is a bit smaller than the KM &I room. 277 00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:44,994 We're going to feel this out and see exactly where it's like water finding its level. 278 00:20:44,994 --> 00:20:51,350 I know there will be a lot of interest oh looking in both directions, but we hope to accommodate. 279 00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:51,834 uh 280 00:20:51,834 --> 00:20:53,395 those desires the best we can. 281 00:20:53,395 --> 00:20:56,336 But yeah, we're excited about this. 282 00:20:56,336 --> 00:21:12,582 think it's a very comprehensive look at market snapshot, uh which relative to the work I've done, it's a really, like I said, casting a very wide uh lens on the marketplace. 283 00:21:12,972 --> 00:21:23,848 You know, it's going to be, there are going to be some interesting conversations now um about, especially on the investor side and on the founder side, there is, I don't know 284 00:21:23,848 --> 00:21:41,018 anybody who disagrees with that we are frothy right now in terms of uh valuations, capital influx into the market, number of startups that are being stood up that maybe 285 00:21:41,923 --> 00:21:44,344 You know, don't have a complete vision. 286 00:21:44,344 --> 00:21:59,812 Um, and you know, it's driving interesting dynamics that are exciting and a little concerning at the same time, you know, cause I, we all know how the story ends. 287 00:21:59,952 --> 00:22:05,065 all three of us are old enough to have seen a few cycles, economic cycles in our day. 288 00:22:05,065 --> 00:22:11,862 And I think what, you know, this, where we're at today, I don't know if you guys would disagree. 289 00:22:11,862 --> 00:22:17,204 Where we're at today feels a lot like the dot com era. 290 00:22:17,265 --> 00:22:32,771 So, you know, in the late nineties, there was all of this money coming in to, you know, dot coms that sometimes had no revenue, sometimes had a fairly thrown together business 291 00:22:32,771 --> 00:22:35,513 plan, yet they were acquiring funding. 292 00:22:35,513 --> 00:22:38,674 And that ended in a big correction. 293 00:22:38,866 --> 00:22:43,007 Um, and I think we're, we're, we're, we're, we're headed in that direction as well. 294 00:22:43,007 --> 00:22:59,852 But what's, I think what is a parallel between then and now is the underlying assumptions that, you know, e-commerce was going to be a massive force and completely disrupt the 295 00:22:59,852 --> 00:23:01,612 retail economy. 296 00:23:01,892 --> 00:23:02,852 We're true. 297 00:23:02,852 --> 00:23:08,974 And just like with AI, you know, the transformational power. 298 00:23:09,216 --> 00:23:12,047 of AI is undeniable. 299 00:23:12,247 --> 00:23:23,200 But as irrational exuberance starts to gain traction, people think they can throw money in any direction and have a successful outcome. 300 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,391 And that's just not the case. 301 00:23:24,391 --> 00:23:27,952 um I'm um actually relieved. 302 00:23:27,952 --> 00:23:32,333 So InfoDash, for those that don't know, is an intranet extranet platform. 303 00:23:32,333 --> 00:23:35,104 And I consider us AI adjacent. 304 00:23:35,343 --> 00:23:43,183 You guys might not even really know this about us, but we have something called Integration Hub that we've had this product for years. 305 00:23:43,183 --> 00:23:44,083 We've never named it. 306 00:23:44,083 --> 00:23:55,503 We used to call it the Info-API, but it's essentially a middle tier that we deploy in a client's Azure tenant that has tentacles into all of their back office systems that is 307 00:23:55,503 --> 00:23:58,583 security trimmed and respects ethical wall boundaries. 308 00:23:59,343 --> 00:24:05,223 And what's interesting about that, we, to be perfectly honest, didn't see this coming. 309 00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:19,116 the need for this, but what it does is it enables law firms to tap into their line of business data using all of Microsoft's Lego blocks like Azure AI search, Azure open AI, 310 00:24:19,116 --> 00:24:22,057 co-pilot, power automate, power apps. 311 00:24:22,257 --> 00:24:28,759 It creates a, a mechanism for the, for them to tap into their data. 312 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,826 And I don't know how you guys see things in the future, but how I see them. 313 00:24:34,826 --> 00:24:44,713 is data, know, firms have historically differentiated themselves through brand that's largely been driven by people and outcomes. 314 00:24:44,713 --> 00:24:57,132 And that's still going to be very important, but there's a new component to the equation, which is what data do you have access to and how can you leverage it in your legal 315 00:24:57,132 --> 00:25:03,066 workflows to build better work product, to advise clients. 316 00:25:03,086 --> 00:25:08,848 Um, more effectively and we kind of, we're, AI adjacent, right? 317 00:25:08,848 --> 00:25:19,571 We're not, I'm, and I'm glad because I feel like when the train comes and like, I'm standing to the side, we'll, we will get impacted if there's a big correction, but not 318 00:25:19,571 --> 00:25:27,273 nearly, you know, all these companies that are, you know, thin wrappers on AI platforms. 319 00:25:27,273 --> 00:25:28,439 Um, I don't know. 320 00:25:28,439 --> 00:25:30,594 Do you guys see the market? 321 00:25:31,044 --> 00:25:35,135 as frothy as I do or do you have a different perspective? 322 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:38,159 think that's a tough one. 323 00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:44,581 think there are strong parallels to the dot com era and the AI era, if you will. 324 00:25:44,901 --> 00:25:53,043 But I think, and this is what popped into my mind, Ted, we've been talking about the unbundling of services for a long time in legal, right? 325 00:25:53,323 --> 00:26:05,286 And then you see these, what they're being described as these AI native law firms like Crosby and Covenant, if you're familiar with these, that do very specific things 326 00:26:05,866 --> 00:26:07,066 leveraging 327 00:26:07,118 --> 00:26:08,598 automation and AI. 328 00:26:08,598 --> 00:26:13,700 um And they almost look and have a look and feel of like a ALSP, right? 329 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:18,281 um But they're law firms doing legal work with lawyers. 330 00:26:18,281 --> 00:26:34,406 uh But again, I feel like it's part of that unbundling concept where you can leverage the tech to do discrete tasks really effectively, really efficiently to a different price 331 00:26:34,406 --> 00:26:35,146 point. 332 00:26:35,206 --> 00:26:42,151 I think there are some distinctions between where we are now uh relative to the dot com boom and bust. 333 00:26:42,612 --> 00:26:50,599 And clearly the dawn of the internet changed the business landscape from that point forward. 334 00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:55,563 uh AI is probably most certainly going to do the same thing. 335 00:26:55,563 --> 00:26:57,805 We're not sure at what speed and velocity. 336 00:26:57,805 --> 00:27:04,478 um do you see, particularly on the transactional side, AI 337 00:27:04,762 --> 00:27:13,452 furthering that unbundling of legal service delivery and kind of putting them in really specific buckets, if you will. 338 00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:15,668 Yeah, that's a great question. 339 00:27:15,668 --> 00:27:17,648 I think the answer is yes. 340 00:27:18,128 --> 00:27:29,652 know, due diligence is a great example of uh a piece of that value chain that is subject to a high degree, very high degree of automation. 341 00:27:29,652 --> 00:27:40,755 you know, something, tasks that took, you know, a room full of junior associates pouring through mountains of documents over weeks. 342 00:27:40,912 --> 00:27:46,052 of time can now be done in days through AI. 343 00:27:46,532 --> 00:28:02,852 So I think that we are absolutely going to see an unbundling and it may be kind of a decomposition and then a recomposition of, you know, the providers that like it doesn't, 344 00:28:02,852 --> 00:28:06,652 you know, especially on a transaction, it's unlikely that you're going to go. 345 00:28:06,947 --> 00:28:14,952 to one place for your due diligence and somewhere else to draft up your stock purchase agreements. 346 00:28:14,952 --> 00:28:26,061 um But I think that uh these big law firms that, especially in the transactional world, where pedigree is such an important aspect of the 347 00:28:26,061 --> 00:28:36,537 the whole process, like when you're on the other side of the table and you see, you know, Gunderson or Cooley or Wilson Sincini or Goodwin or, you know, one of these big reputable 348 00:28:36,537 --> 00:28:43,761 firms that have a ton of experience on the other side of the table, it changes your negotiation strategy, right? 349 00:28:43,761 --> 00:28:47,533 Um, versus somebody who's not well represented. 350 00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:50,845 Um, so that stuff is still going to matter. 351 00:28:50,845 --> 00:28:55,767 It's not like people are not going to go to one of these firms to get the work done. 352 00:28:55,801 --> 00:29:10,048 But I think these big firms are going to have to think very carefully about their process and figure out how to incorporate automation or they're gonna lose work to the firms that 353 00:29:10,048 --> 00:29:10,828 do. 354 00:29:11,189 --> 00:29:13,231 That's what seems to make sense to me. 355 00:29:14,042 --> 00:29:14,782 Yeah. 356 00:29:14,782 --> 00:29:17,162 I think there's a couple of things at play. 357 00:29:17,302 --> 00:29:28,682 First of all, your point about content and data being very important as opposed to, you know, also important, but as opposed to just resting on the laurels of the reputation and 358 00:29:28,682 --> 00:29:32,542 brand and pedigree of the firm and the lawyers who are there. 359 00:29:32,542 --> 00:29:34,302 I think that's true. 360 00:29:34,302 --> 00:29:37,262 Those things will continue to be important. 361 00:29:38,462 --> 00:29:41,761 Good lawyers are, you you need good lawyers to do good. 362 00:29:41,761 --> 00:29:44,453 legal work. 363 00:29:45,134 --> 00:29:51,859 But I think your point underscores the importance, quite frankly, of knowledge management. 364 00:29:51,859 --> 00:29:58,064 uh This is what we've been, you know, the bell we've been ringing for years and years and years. 365 00:29:58,064 --> 00:30:11,894 uh The firm, the firm, the, you know, firms, the firm has created content for years and years and years, millions of documents, you know, millions of pieces of content. 366 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:21,330 that is codified into documents, saved into some platform, DMS or other. 367 00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:30,190 And what has happened with, and I'll just call them modern technologies, because it's not all AI. 368 00:30:30,190 --> 00:30:37,250 We're calling all of this new stuff AI, and it's almost meaningless to use that term already. 369 00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:40,590 I think what most people mean by it is, 370 00:30:41,064 --> 00:30:43,005 modern technologies, right? 371 00:30:43,005 --> 00:30:45,435 Like search tools are not AI, right? 372 00:30:45,435 --> 00:30:49,867 uh Generative AI is a different type of AI than expert systems. 373 00:30:49,867 --> 00:30:55,118 So I think we need to be more precise in a lot of this stuff, but I'll get off that high horse for a second. 374 00:30:55,218 --> 00:31:08,822 The benefit of all of this, the awareness, the hype, whether it's the market hype or not, but the hype, the fact that, you know, AI is in every newscast out there, every, you know, 375 00:31:08,822 --> 00:31:09,612 every 376 00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:14,190 discussion about business now includes a discussion about AI. 377 00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:31,556 I think that helps those of us who are trying to promote knowledge management because it goes to the point that it's important that we leverage the firm's collective knowledge and 378 00:31:31,556 --> 00:31:33,436 wisdom and experience. 379 00:31:33,436 --> 00:31:40,258 And you cannot do that unless you're able to unearth it and access it and share it. 380 00:31:40,331 --> 00:31:43,112 and get it around to the others at the firm. 381 00:31:43,672 --> 00:31:46,273 There's so much oil, right? 382 00:31:46,273 --> 00:31:47,974 Data, the new oil. 383 00:31:48,213 --> 00:31:52,276 There's so much great information at all of these firms. 384 00:31:52,276 --> 00:31:57,768 It's just the accessibility of it has been a huge problem for many, many years. 385 00:31:57,768 --> 00:32:09,542 And to your point about your platform, Ted, the fact that you can tap into other systems and bring them into an interface that is useful and easy to access, 386 00:32:09,682 --> 00:32:12,744 and is uh intuitive. 387 00:32:12,984 --> 00:32:18,707 This is really where it's at because again, that content has always been there. 388 00:32:18,808 --> 00:32:29,474 And sometimes you have PSLs or practice support lawyers or knowledge management attorneys or whatever we're calling our folks nowadays, know, sort of manually do some of that work 389 00:32:29,474 --> 00:32:35,908 to, to, to rise it to that, raise it to the top, et cetera. 390 00:32:35,908 --> 00:32:36,332 But 391 00:32:36,332 --> 00:32:47,165 you know, tools like yours and others are really effective in surfacing that gold that has in many organizations been untapped for many, many years. 392 00:32:47,526 --> 00:33:00,460 so those, those organizations that focus on that and appreciate that and understand that they're sitting on a gold mine or a oil field or whatever analogy we want to use. 393 00:33:00,618 --> 00:33:08,545 and all they have to do is take the steps to expose it and make it accessible, they're going to win. 394 00:33:08,545 --> 00:33:21,035 um Whether that's AI or whether that's just automation or whether that's just good business practices or processes and getting the right people in the right spots, this is 395 00:33:21,035 --> 00:33:23,097 what I love about what's going on now. 396 00:33:23,097 --> 00:33:29,706 Whether or not we're in a bubble, I have some thoughts about that too, but I'm thankful that this is 397 00:33:29,706 --> 00:33:35,929 shining a light on the, as I like to say, old problems, new tools, right? 398 00:33:36,009 --> 00:33:37,849 It's the same problems, right? 399 00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:39,952 It's accessibility and everything else. 400 00:33:39,952 --> 00:33:45,975 We just have more powerful tools now that enable us to get that work done. 401 00:33:45,975 --> 00:33:54,459 So I'm excited about it, even if it might be a financial bubble or over investment bubble or these types of things. 402 00:33:54,459 --> 00:33:59,732 There are going to be some of these companies that don't survive, but many will, and I think many will do well. 403 00:34:00,442 --> 00:34:04,392 You know, no, no, go ahead, Kevin. 404 00:34:04,624 --> 00:34:09,945 I was just gonna say a lot of what Patrick was alluding to strikes me as information architecture. 405 00:34:10,286 --> 00:34:18,429 And uh arguably perhaps law firms were a little late to the game in terms of focusing on information architecture. 406 00:34:18,529 --> 00:34:20,850 I think AI clearly lit that fire. 407 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:28,253 ah But there were a number of firms uh building toward this moment for a decade or more. 408 00:34:28,253 --> 00:34:30,314 um But I think that's. 409 00:34:30,564 --> 00:34:39,785 That's really the challenge on the data side is having systems that can speak to one another and findability, usability, right? 410 00:34:39,906 --> 00:34:44,531 That's IA before AI, if you will. 411 00:34:45,954 --> 00:34:46,754 Yeah. 412 00:34:46,861 --> 00:34:53,435 know, and we are positioned in an interesting spot on that kind of data landscape. 413 00:34:53,435 --> 00:34:58,388 know, InfoDash, the name comes from, we're DoorDash for your data. 414 00:34:58,749 --> 00:35:03,012 And, you know, we kind of deliver it when you want, where you want. 415 00:35:03,012 --> 00:35:13,219 We've chosen intranets and extranets as kind of the single pane of glass to view these disparate data sources in a coherent and consolidated way. 416 00:35:13,293 --> 00:35:22,272 But the reality is that that data orchestration layer has a lot of value in the in the AI scenario too. 417 00:35:22,353 --> 00:35:23,704 So let me ask you guys a question. 418 00:35:23,704 --> 00:35:28,469 Do you do you guys know the average length of a bull market? 419 00:35:32,258 --> 00:35:33,339 not sure. 420 00:35:34,118 --> 00:35:35,376 10 years? 421 00:35:35,376 --> 00:35:41,916 five, and that's the optimistic, that is the optimistic, there's lots of different ways to measure. 422 00:35:42,756 --> 00:35:45,616 So yeah, five is the average. 423 00:35:46,056 --> 00:35:50,136 Do you know the longest bull market to ever run? 424 00:35:50,136 --> 00:35:51,916 How long it was and when? 425 00:35:54,756 --> 00:35:57,962 You're in it, you're in it, yeah. 426 00:35:57,962 --> 00:35:59,088 That'd be mine. 427 00:35:59,088 --> 00:36:03,488 Yeah, so tend to well, and there's also a debate about this as well. 428 00:36:04,068 --> 00:36:21,428 So 2010 to 2022 during COVID, hard to say that the 30 or 40 % market drop in COVID is still in scope for the bull market definition, but we so quickly recovered from that. 429 00:36:21,428 --> 00:36:23,208 That wasn't a normal cycle. 430 00:36:23,208 --> 00:36:28,110 So I consider that we are still in the 2010 bull market 15 years. 431 00:36:28,110 --> 00:36:28,955 Hmm. 432 00:36:28,955 --> 00:36:36,179 Um, you know, because essentially it's, is, and what it tells you is that we're overdue. 433 00:36:36,319 --> 00:36:38,871 We're overdue for correction. 434 00:36:38,871 --> 00:36:44,163 these things are natural cycles, like, you know, kind of like the Gartner hype cycle. 435 00:36:44,324 --> 00:36:51,267 And, um, you know, from an investment perspective, there's so much, I keep a spreadsheet of VCs that reach out to us. 436 00:36:51,267 --> 00:36:57,975 In fact, I shared it with you, um, that it it's longer than the last time I sent it to you a week ago. 437 00:36:57,975 --> 00:37:07,127 Like I get hit up just so we started recording the spreadsheet maybe six weeks before Ilta. 438 00:37:07,127 --> 00:37:10,939 So it's been three months tops, maybe less. 439 00:37:10,939 --> 00:37:14,039 And I've got 26 VCs in there. 440 00:37:14,179 --> 00:37:15,860 When you have that number. 441 00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:21,351 So these I'm looking at signals in the market like, all right, what signals can we look at to tell us we're in a bubble? 442 00:37:21,351 --> 00:37:27,143 All right, we've got capital out there chasing opportunities, uber aggressively. 443 00:37:27,143 --> 00:37:28,193 We've got 444 00:37:28,193 --> 00:37:34,686 Meta spending 250 million dollars as signing bonus bonuses to hire resources. 445 00:37:34,686 --> 00:37:50,743 We've got 100x or sometimes, you know, valuations for companies that don't even have revenue or a bit even sometimes it's a public um business plan as to what they're going to 446 00:37:50,743 --> 00:37:51,173 do. 447 00:37:51,173 --> 00:37:55,375 um And then, you know, it almost feels like we're heading 448 00:37:55,408 --> 00:37:58,921 You know, there's some parallels to the NFT market back in the day. 449 00:37:58,921 --> 00:38:00,552 Remember the board apes? 450 00:38:02,634 --> 00:38:06,857 and what crazy numbers, like hundreds of thousands of dollars for these NFTs. 451 00:38:06,857 --> 00:38:14,043 Now the difference is that was a bunch of nonsense and there were solving real world business problems. 452 00:38:14,043 --> 00:38:19,697 There's real applications of the blockchain, but NFTs, I don't know your feelings on them. 453 00:38:19,697 --> 00:38:24,559 Uh, there was so much, there was more hype than really fundamental value there. 454 00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:36,559 I think that's different with this and it's going to be interesting to see the perspectives of, you know, the investor community and, um, you know, your founder 455 00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:45,819 community that are, you you have to make decisions as a founder of a startup, like, Hey, do I accept this loft evaluation that I can get a big amount of money for a little bit of 456 00:38:45,819 --> 00:38:46,159 dilution? 457 00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:47,839 That's very attractive. 458 00:38:47,879 --> 00:38:54,399 The debt, the downside of that is if you don't deliver on expectations because maybe we have some turbulence. 459 00:38:54,615 --> 00:39:02,300 or the market is over saturated and you can't deliver on expectations, you're going to have a down round, which is very, very bad. 460 00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:11,247 There's all sorts of provisions that are tied to that money that you accepted that have really bad consequences for you as a founder when that happens. 461 00:39:11,247 --> 00:39:21,684 So you guys bringing this audience together right now, I think is super interesting because I can't wait to just read the room and have some side conversations and you know, 462 00:39:21,684 --> 00:39:23,811 from founders and from investors like 463 00:39:23,811 --> 00:39:25,233 Hey, how are you guys thinking about this? 464 00:39:25,233 --> 00:39:32,224 Like you're coming in at 12, 14 X revenue on a startup that's in a crowded space and lots of uncertainty. 465 00:39:32,224 --> 00:39:39,425 Um, but I, I, I would imagine Patrick, that's the goal is to like have these conversations. 466 00:39:39,939 --> 00:39:41,240 Yeah, absolutely. 467 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:41,730 Absolutely. 468 00:39:41,730 --> 00:39:46,461 And to your point, it's going to be such a nice mix of folks in the room, right? 469 00:39:46,461 --> 00:39:56,245 The investors who are, you know, trying to get a piece of these legal tech companies, the legal tech companies that are, you know, trying to figure it all out. 470 00:39:56,245 --> 00:39:56,665 Right. 471 00:39:56,665 --> 00:40:04,468 And that's why I love that we have a lot of these experienced folks who have been through it and could give those legal tech companies some advice. 472 00:40:04,468 --> 00:40:06,549 And then the buyers in the room as well. 473 00:40:06,549 --> 00:40:08,599 And, you know, I 474 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:25,260 I'm kind of glad I'm not at a law firm anymore because, ah you know, trying to schedule, hear this among my friends who are former peers in positions that I used to occupy, just 475 00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:31,563 trying to keep up with the vendors and see the demos and not miss anything. 476 00:40:31,563 --> 00:40:35,918 And then of course, it's compounded by the fact that the 477 00:40:35,918 --> 00:40:42,180 partners at the firm are seeing this stuff in regular sort of the course of their day. 478 00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:47,121 Sometimes clients come to them and say, hey, would you take a look at our stuff? 479 00:40:47,121 --> 00:40:58,424 But now you've got the additional, this used to be a little bit of a problem, but a lot more these partners are coming to the KM and innovation folks and saying, have we looked 480 00:40:58,424 --> 00:40:59,364 at this tool? 481 00:40:59,364 --> 00:41:00,475 Have we looked at that tool? 482 00:41:00,475 --> 00:41:02,195 And if it happens once in a while, it's fine. 483 00:41:02,195 --> 00:41:05,302 And sometimes you learn about something new, but 484 00:41:05,302 --> 00:41:13,869 what I'm hearing is it's happening multiple times a week from multiple partners and it just adds and you can't say, know, well, we're not going look at that one. 485 00:41:13,869 --> 00:41:21,996 You know, you say, yes, we'll absolutely add it to the list and we'll get back to you and give you our assessment. 486 00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:30,703 But, you know, some firms have full time uh AI assessors in terms of like assessing tool, new tools. 487 00:41:30,963 --> 00:41:34,516 And that's just a job that never existed. 488 00:41:34,567 --> 00:41:35,468 when I was doing it. 489 00:41:35,468 --> 00:41:41,973 um So yeah, it's hard on everybody, but there's a lot of opportunities to your point as well. 490 00:41:41,973 --> 00:41:52,442 And I think there's gonna be some big winners and I think there's gonna be a lot that just sort of fall off and try something else, but it'll be interesting. 491 00:41:52,442 --> 00:41:56,425 But to your point earlier, I think we've been through this as well, even within legal, right? 492 00:41:56,425 --> 00:41:58,827 Think about the early e-discovery days, right? 493 00:41:58,827 --> 00:42:03,246 In the early 2000s, there were so many companies trying to get 494 00:42:03,246 --> 00:42:06,229 piece of that action, because it was so lucrative. 495 00:42:06,229 --> 00:42:11,994 And that market has sort of uh consolidated and settled down. 496 00:42:11,994 --> 00:42:16,468 And there's some leaders, and there's some niche players as well. 497 00:42:16,468 --> 00:42:20,722 I suspect that'll happen uh with legal AI. 498 00:42:20,722 --> 00:42:23,146 uh And that's a good thing. 499 00:42:23,146 --> 00:42:25,546 I don't think this is sustainable. 500 00:42:25,546 --> 00:42:29,740 I don't think anybody wants it to continue like it is now. 501 00:42:30,466 --> 00:42:40,826 I think everybody wants it to calm down a little bit and let the, you know, the best stuff rise to the top and let the mediocrity, you know, fade away. 502 00:42:40,826 --> 00:42:42,342 I think that's a good thing. 503 00:42:42,342 --> 00:42:44,742 Do you actually see things calming down? 504 00:42:44,742 --> 00:42:49,462 Maybe from a new product entrant perspective, things will calm down. 505 00:42:49,462 --> 00:42:56,382 But in terms of implications on a law firm business model, I don't see that calming down anytime soon. 506 00:42:56,682 --> 00:42:59,221 I'd see that getting more complicated. 507 00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:02,042 I think we're just at the front end of that personally. 508 00:43:02,211 --> 00:43:09,838 Well, with money pushing so aggressively into the space, it's going to continue until that dries up. 509 00:43:09,838 --> 00:43:14,282 Once the capital dries up, there will be less fuel. 510 00:43:14,282 --> 00:43:20,387 There'll be less dry powder for these startups to leverage, to create their wares. 511 00:43:20,387 --> 00:43:24,041 um mean, look at the Harvey situation. 512 00:43:24,041 --> 00:43:27,023 So Harvey raised, I think they did two rounds. 513 00:43:27,023 --> 00:43:29,165 I don't remember which rounds they were. 514 00:43:29,171 --> 00:43:35,317 One was at a $3 billion valuation and three or four months later, it was at a $5 billion valuation. 515 00:43:35,378 --> 00:43:36,459 Now, okay. 516 00:43:36,459 --> 00:43:37,760 You might say, great. 517 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:44,747 If you were early in on Harvey, man, I, know, and no shade to Harvey, like they're doing great. 518 00:43:44,747 --> 00:43:52,112 Um, Ligora is doing great, but if I'm an investor, I'm looking at that and going, I don't want any. 519 00:43:52,112 --> 00:43:52,912 piece of that. 520 00:43:52,912 --> 00:44:03,486 Like don't want to go anywhere near that because it's just the volatility like having such a meteoric rise creates risk. 521 00:44:03,486 --> 00:44:11,630 You know how much of um and this isn't specific to Harvey but just in general with startups like how much of your revenue is vibe revenue right? 522 00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:20,303 People trying out maybe you keep doing paid POCs and what sort of churn are you going to experience once things stabilize? 523 00:44:20,525 --> 00:44:29,461 That those are really important questions and you know, startup valuations are driven by on revenue, multiples of revenue. 524 00:44:29,461 --> 00:44:39,017 And it's like your company is being valued based on this revenue that, is probably a good significant chunk of it's going to churn when things stabilize. 525 00:44:39,017 --> 00:44:45,911 So that, whole situation makes me nervous, just as a player in the space, like it's getting risky. 526 00:44:46,892 --> 00:44:47,983 Yeah, for sure. 527 00:44:47,983 --> 00:44:59,139 And you know, we've always said even, even the largest law firms are relatively small businesses and those who, you know, cater to them, you could do very, very well, of 528 00:44:59,139 --> 00:45:06,173 course, um, being a focused on legal tech or whatever niche you might be focused on. 529 00:45:06,173 --> 00:45:16,094 But when you're talking really large numbers, when you're talking multiple billions, these are the types of numbers that, sort of 530 00:45:16,094 --> 00:45:23,668 larger, uh broader, uh non-niche companies usually go for, right? 531 00:45:23,668 --> 00:45:36,375 You know, if you're selling to Walmart or, you know, Walmart's the biggest, it's maybe, maybe not a great example, but if you're selling to, you know, IBM, Oracle, selling to 532 00:45:36,375 --> 00:45:39,787 Apple, these companies have hundreds of thousands of employees. 533 00:45:39,787 --> 00:45:41,548 The largest law firm has what? 534 00:45:41,548 --> 00:45:44,019 I don't know, 14,000 employees, something like that. 535 00:45:44,019 --> 00:45:45,231 And then it drops off 536 00:45:45,231 --> 00:45:46,392 pretty quickly from there. 537 00:45:46,392 --> 00:45:51,075 uh So even large law firms are relatively small businesses. 538 00:45:51,075 --> 00:46:00,000 So if you're selling into the legal world, into law firms, there's only so many seats you can sell to. 539 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,364 And of course, some smart companies have broadened their targets. 540 00:46:05,364 --> 00:46:09,326 So uh outside of legal, you expand to 541 00:46:09,738 --> 00:46:12,829 more generally professional services that do similar work. 542 00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:19,041 And then there's more TAM, more total addressable market there for you to target, which is smart, of course. 543 00:46:19,041 --> 00:46:32,725 um But yeah, I think there's some delusion in terms of uh how big can we get, especially if you're sort of very niche, right? 544 00:46:32,725 --> 00:46:36,456 uh But it's interesting to see. 545 00:46:36,456 --> 00:46:38,346 And what I love about 546 00:46:38,562 --> 00:46:46,921 today is, you know, there's, think more than ever, people are really trying to figure out how to do it better, right? 547 00:46:46,921 --> 00:46:48,157 And that's what we're all about, right? 548 00:46:48,157 --> 00:46:49,514 What we've always been all about. 549 00:46:49,514 --> 00:46:51,817 How can we do this better, stronger, faster? 550 00:46:51,817 --> 00:46:57,964 And I think there's a lot of interesting, uh smart people trying to accomplish those goals. 551 00:46:57,964 --> 00:46:59,427 So I'm excited about that. 552 00:46:59,427 --> 00:47:09,776 Yeah, well, I'm going to be um moderating your keynote panel at the Legal Tech Connect conference. 553 00:47:09,776 --> 00:47:13,519 We're sponsors and we're going, we have a demo room. 554 00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,313 I can't remember which day it is, but we have a demo room one day at KMNI. 555 00:47:17,313 --> 00:47:22,187 We're going to be showing our new extranet platform, which is a high key replacement. 556 00:47:22,248 --> 00:47:26,177 We're really bullish about our opportunity in that space. 557 00:47:26,177 --> 00:47:31,953 Nothing has really changed in the legal extranet space in honestly more than 10 years. 558 00:47:31,953 --> 00:47:46,419 um And we are really doing it differently by again enabling the firms to surface data and um make it client facing in some really interesting ways and then a whole bunch of client 559 00:47:46,419 --> 00:47:47,950 facing AI stuff. 560 00:47:48,324 --> 00:47:52,786 For those that come, we'll be showing that solution off. 561 00:47:52,786 --> 00:47:54,717 Kevin, how do people find out more? 562 00:47:54,717 --> 00:47:56,448 Because we're wrapping up here. 563 00:47:56,948 --> 00:48:03,371 Before we do, I want you guys to tell people how to find out more about LTC and the KM &I Summit. 564 00:48:04,964 --> 00:48:08,677 Yeah, well, we've got uh obviously a landing page for each. 565 00:48:08,677 --> 00:48:10,419 uh What is it? 566 00:48:10,419 --> 00:48:18,986 KMNIforlegal.com, uh which will provide links to LegalTechConnect, which LegalTechConnect.com. 567 00:48:18,986 --> 00:48:23,430 uh There's information about both events uh on both websites. 568 00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:25,572 uh So check it out. 569 00:48:25,572 --> 00:48:32,228 We've just recently expanded what we've got coming into shape with respect to the agenda. 570 00:48:32,758 --> 00:48:37,641 and the speakers and the solutions showcase stage that continues to grow. 571 00:48:37,641 --> 00:48:39,412 We've just added a third segment. 572 00:48:39,412 --> 00:48:50,889 So there will be a lot of buzz, a lot of energy in a beautiful space um in October in New York, which tends to be a great time uh to spend some time in New York City. 573 00:48:50,889 --> 00:48:52,910 So it should be a lot of fun. 574 00:48:52,910 --> 00:48:55,012 uh We're excited about it. 575 00:48:55,012 --> 00:48:58,874 So appreciate you letting us talk about it and share some details, Ted. 576 00:48:58,874 --> 00:48:59,323 Thank you. 577 00:48:59,323 --> 00:48:59,863 absolutely. 578 00:48:59,863 --> 00:49:01,783 And I'll give my stamp of approval. 579 00:49:01,783 --> 00:49:03,403 I go to a lot of conferences. 580 00:49:03,403 --> 00:49:09,863 I think this year we're doing 14 and I, and I, I do 12 of them. 581 00:49:09,863 --> 00:49:22,263 So I'm not doing, I didn't do, there was a TLTF and P P WC event in London and I let somebody else make that transatlantic trip and then legal geek I'm missing as well. 582 00:49:22,263 --> 00:49:28,023 Matt, uh, yes, a bitch or you guys know, and Adam young are, um, are heading over there. 583 00:49:28,045 --> 00:49:30,437 That transatlantic travel is rough. 584 00:49:30,437 --> 00:49:36,129 Um, you know, doing a red, so I'll let the younger guys with more hair do. 585 00:49:36,129 --> 00:49:38,978 say you're getting too old for that stuff. 586 00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:40,701 No doubt, no doubt. 587 00:49:40,701 --> 00:49:42,802 um Well, I can vouch. 588 00:49:42,802 --> 00:49:45,983 I do a lot of events and I can vouch for Cam and I. 589 00:49:45,983 --> 00:49:47,003 It is fantastic. 590 00:49:47,003 --> 00:49:48,934 You guys, top notch food. 591 00:49:48,934 --> 00:49:51,245 It's a really nice space. 592 00:49:51,385 --> 00:49:55,587 It uh is a very class act. 593 00:49:55,587 --> 00:50:02,430 um And I've seen the agenda for LTC and the content looks incredible. 594 00:50:02,430 --> 00:50:04,831 So I'm really excited about that. 595 00:50:04,831 --> 00:50:05,651 So. 596 00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:12,547 Thank you guys for spending a few minutes with me today and I'm going to see you person in about eight weeks. 597 00:50:13,328 --> 00:50:13,873 Sounds great. 598 00:50:13,873 --> 00:50:14,585 Thank you, Ted. 599 00:50:14,585 --> 00:50:14,997 you, Ted. 600 00:50:14,997 --> 00:50:15,731 Thanks for having us. 601 00:50:15,731 --> 00:50:16,735 We appreciate it. 602 00:50:16,735 --> 00:50:17,622 Absolutely. 603 00:50:17,622 --> 00:50:18,175 All right. 604 00:50:18,175 --> 00:50:19,032 Take care. 605 00:50:19,032 --> 00:50:19,995 See you soon. 606 00:50:19,995 --> 00:50:20,346 too. 607 00:50:20,346 --> 00:50:21,326 Thank you. 00:00:04,757 Patrick and Kevin, how are you this morning? 2 00:00:05,735 --> 00:00:06,567 Doing great. 3 00:00:06,567 --> 00:00:07,704 How are you, Ted? 4 00:00:08,383 --> 00:00:09,654 and awesome. 5 00:00:09,654 --> 00:00:10,634 This is a treat. 6 00:00:10,634 --> 00:00:14,117 I don't get to guests on the pod that often. 7 00:00:14,117 --> 00:00:23,402 So um it's exciting to we can have we have 50 % more banter, which is always fun. 8 00:00:24,303 --> 00:00:31,087 So I think you know, the audience, you guys are both pretty visible in the KM &I world. 9 00:00:31,087 --> 00:00:36,300 But for those that that don't know you, I've known you both for a really long time. 10 00:00:36,558 --> 00:00:46,258 I think maybe early 2010s, Patrick, you were CKO at OD, Ogletree Deacons, and Kevin, you were running ArcKM back when we were sponsors. 11 00:00:47,178 --> 00:00:52,378 So a lot of history with you both, and I'm really excited about the conversation. 12 00:00:52,458 --> 00:00:57,398 We're going to talk about just events. 13 00:00:57,398 --> 00:00:58,778 We're going to talk about innovation. 14 00:00:58,778 --> 00:01:05,158 We're going talk about the events you guys have coming up in, God, really, what is that, six weeks? 15 00:01:05,298 --> 00:01:05,776 Yeah. 16 00:01:05,776 --> 00:01:06,816 Eight weeks? 17 00:01:06,877 --> 00:01:07,958 But who's counting? 18 00:01:07,958 --> 00:01:08,838 Yeah. 19 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:11,640 Yeah. 20 00:01:12,442 --> 00:01:16,805 We can hear the tick of every moment here, but yes, uh eight weeks. 21 00:01:16,805 --> 00:01:18,226 Yeah, that's of yesterday. 22 00:01:18,816 --> 00:01:22,932 And you guys have a new event coming up that we're going to talk about. 23 00:01:22,932 --> 00:01:25,897 But before we do, let's get you guys introduced. 24 00:01:25,897 --> 00:01:29,462 um Patrick, why don't you go first? 25 00:01:30,296 --> 00:01:30,856 Yeah, thanks. 26 00:01:30,856 --> 00:01:32,108 Patrick DiDomenico here. 27 00:01:32,108 --> 00:01:32,968 Hello, everybody. 28 00:01:32,968 --> 00:01:36,566 uh Let's see, where to begin. 29 00:01:36,566 --> 00:01:45,459 I used to practice law for about nine years, uh switched out of practicing in the early to mid 2000s. 30 00:01:45,459 --> 00:01:57,330 I think it was 2005, actually, uh into knowledge management, innovation, technology, at the firm that I practiced at, uh which is called Givens Selle Deo. 31 00:01:57,330 --> 00:01:58,270 And then... 32 00:01:58,424 --> 00:02:02,375 continued to do that type of work for the last 20 years. 33 00:02:02,375 --> 00:02:10,917 In fact, this is my 20th year, 2025 here, uh doing KM Innovation Technology, et cetera. 34 00:02:10,917 --> 00:02:23,541 uh Along the way, I did the CKO and Chief Innovation Officer jobs at various firms like Ogletree Deacons, as you mentioned, and as a double voice in Plimpton for a couple of 35 00:02:23,541 --> 00:02:24,541 years. 36 00:02:24,641 --> 00:02:28,142 My most recent firm was Jackson Lewis, where I was the 37 00:02:28,142 --> 00:02:30,042 chief innovation officer. 38 00:02:30,122 --> 00:02:33,082 And then in, what was it, 2022? 39 00:02:33,322 --> 00:02:34,422 It's a blur at this point. 40 00:02:34,422 --> 00:02:38,842 Last few years, I went out on my own, I started consulting. 41 00:02:39,482 --> 00:02:45,162 So doing all the fun stuff that I was doing at individual firms, helping other firms do that. 42 00:02:45,162 --> 00:02:53,922 Also in-house legal departments and legal tech companies have been advising and investing in legal tech companies for number of years now. 43 00:02:54,062 --> 00:02:58,605 ah And then of course started the KM &I conference uh in 2023. 44 00:02:58,605 --> 00:03:05,930 And Ted, I know you are very familiar with it because you are our very first sponsor, which we appreciate. 45 00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:13,175 And this year partnering with Kevin, who I've known for 20 of those years, um spun up Legal Tech Connect. 46 00:03:13,175 --> 00:03:14,906 And I know we're going to be talking about that as well. 47 00:03:14,906 --> 00:03:17,057 So ah excited to be here. 48 00:03:17,057 --> 00:03:18,230 Thanks for having us, Ted. 49 00:03:18,230 --> 00:03:19,915 Yeah, absolutely. 50 00:03:19,915 --> 00:03:20,875 Kevin? 51 00:03:22,064 --> 00:03:26,815 Yeah, I think that 20 year reference um actually fits like a glove. 52 00:03:26,815 --> 00:03:40,860 I, in 2005, uh joined the core team at the ARC Group, which was known for its flagship event, the KM Legal Conference, which initially ran in, I think, September of 2005 in 53 00:03:40,860 --> 00:03:41,460 Chicago. 54 00:03:41,460 --> 00:03:46,201 um So I spent about 17 years with ARC. 55 00:03:46,201 --> 00:03:49,092 uh So we produced 56 00:03:49,675 --> 00:03:51,366 a number of practice management events. 57 00:03:51,366 --> 00:04:01,801 We had a BI conference, a competitive intelligence conference, a long running law firm libraries conference and community that we sort of fostered. 58 00:04:02,122 --> 00:04:11,176 yeah, Patrick and Joshua Fireman and Ron Friedman, think, you know, initially it was Joshua and Ron that were co-chairing the KM legal conference. 59 00:04:11,176 --> 00:04:16,129 And then several years later, we moved it to New York and it was Patrick and Joshua. 60 00:04:16,349 --> 00:04:17,610 we have been working together. 61 00:04:17,610 --> 00:04:18,438 uh 62 00:04:18,438 --> 00:04:21,818 almost all of those 20 years, at least 15 of them. 63 00:04:22,038 --> 00:04:29,618 So 17 years as program director at our group, just shy of three years with inside practice. 64 00:04:29,718 --> 00:04:40,198 And then as Patrick mentioned, more recently joined forces and something we've been talking about for many years to actually kind of formalize our working relationship and 65 00:04:40,198 --> 00:04:41,518 collaborate and do this together. 66 00:04:41,518 --> 00:04:44,298 And it's been a lot of fun right out of the gate. 67 00:04:45,134 --> 00:04:45,904 Good stuff, man. 68 00:04:45,904 --> 00:04:46,464 Good stuff. 69 00:04:46,464 --> 00:04:53,616 Well, yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of all the events that you both have been involved with. 70 00:04:53,616 --> 00:04:57,958 I was an ARKKM sponsor in the early days. 71 00:04:57,958 --> 00:05:03,549 um And, you know, we were a sponsor in the ARKBI event. 72 00:05:03,549 --> 00:05:05,210 I don't know if there were multiple. 73 00:05:05,210 --> 00:05:06,640 There was one in New York. 74 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:07,581 It was really good. 75 00:05:07,581 --> 00:05:10,982 It was small, but it was really good. 76 00:05:10,982 --> 00:05:12,552 I think we presented, actually. 77 00:05:12,552 --> 00:05:20,945 ran at least eight or nine years, that BI event, which was interesting, interestingly kind of a precursor to the AI stuff, right? 78 00:05:20,945 --> 00:05:29,627 The predictive analytics and yeah, that was, it was very finance focused, I think in general, but that was a great event. 79 00:05:29,627 --> 00:05:31,098 And it was a little bit on the intimate. 80 00:05:31,098 --> 00:05:36,489 It was usually 50 to 80 people, you know, like a lot of the archivants were. 81 00:05:37,730 --> 00:05:38,389 Yeah. 82 00:05:38,389 --> 00:05:51,155 mean, I think probably most of our listeners are familiar with your KM &I event, but Patrick, why don't you just kind of give an overview for those that aren't? 83 00:05:51,716 --> 00:05:52,906 Like, what's the purpose? 84 00:05:52,906 --> 00:05:54,097 Who's the audience? 85 00:05:54,097 --> 00:05:56,078 What kind of speakers do you have? 86 00:05:56,078 --> 00:05:57,088 How long is it? 87 00:05:57,088 --> 00:05:58,439 All that sort of stuff. 88 00:05:58,671 --> 00:06:00,351 Yeah, yeah, the basics. 89 00:06:00,891 --> 00:06:03,031 Yeah, so we're going into our third year. 90 00:06:03,031 --> 00:06:04,811 So we started in 2023. 91 00:06:04,811 --> 00:06:07,491 We had a great first year. 92 00:06:07,491 --> 00:06:13,891 sold out, which we were very happy about because I was very nervous to spin up my own conference. 93 00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:18,011 But yeah, we did great the first and second year. 94 00:06:18,011 --> 00:06:23,691 We grew from the first year to about 230 attendees and sold out last year. 95 00:06:23,911 --> 00:06:27,231 And this year, we're headed for another sellout, I think. 96 00:06:27,342 --> 00:06:29,803 which is gonna be great, a brand new venue. 97 00:06:29,803 --> 00:06:40,986 But the gist of the conference is in some ways it's a um tribute to what Kevin had done for many, years at ArcKM. 98 00:06:41,446 --> 00:06:49,218 It's a two day event similar to ArcKM uh bringing together all the leaders in knowledge management and innovation. 99 00:06:49,218 --> 00:06:52,809 Of course we sort of tacked down the innovation aspect of it, right? 100 00:06:52,809 --> 00:06:55,510 So it's not just ArcKM. 101 00:06:55,752 --> 00:06:59,084 This is knowledge management and innovation for legal. 102 00:06:59,624 --> 00:07:09,630 you know, I think that's, I know it was intentional, but I think it was a good idea because a lot of the knowledge management folks in the last, I don't know, 10 or so years 103 00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:17,785 have started to, um you know, sort of do double, double time, double work in innovation, right? 104 00:07:17,785 --> 00:07:20,617 And I know you've done some research on this topic, Ted. 105 00:07:20,617 --> 00:07:22,988 You, you've analyzed the 106 00:07:22,988 --> 00:07:25,640 the rise of the innovation professional in law firms. 107 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,323 And there's been a great increase in the number of people with innovation in their title. 108 00:07:30,463 --> 00:07:42,691 And, you know, I don't know if we predicted it or if we reacted to it, maybe a little bit of both, but because knowledge management and innovation folks tend to uh gather together 109 00:07:42,691 --> 00:07:49,416 and sort of uh some do both of the uh types of work that each other does. 110 00:07:49,416 --> 00:07:51,327 Sometimes it's the same leader, right? 111 00:07:51,327 --> 00:07:52,558 We often see 112 00:07:52,609 --> 00:07:59,201 chief knowledge and innovation officer as the head of innovation and knowledge management at law firms. 113 00:07:59,322 --> 00:08:02,603 So we combined those concepts. 114 00:08:02,923 --> 00:08:05,584 It's very much a peer driven uh event. 115 00:08:05,584 --> 00:08:07,685 Again, two days in New York City. 116 00:08:07,685 --> 00:08:10,486 It's October 22, 23 this year. 117 00:08:10,866 --> 00:08:16,118 And it's all about the community. 118 00:08:16,118 --> 00:08:21,642 speaking of which, one of the things that's very important to us about that community is that there's 119 00:08:21,642 --> 00:08:24,303 As we like to say, there's no second class citizens. 120 00:08:24,303 --> 00:08:39,017 We really recognize that everybody, uh sponsors, vendors, law firm folks, in-house folks, we're all members of this community and we treat everybody uh equally at the event because 121 00:08:39,017 --> 00:08:46,889 we realize that collaboration and cooperation among all members of that community is very important to success in all respects. 122 00:08:46,889 --> 00:08:49,760 So we can get into some of the details of 123 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:50,931 some of the sessions. 124 00:08:50,931 --> 00:09:01,243 uh You've been to it ever since it started, so you know the vibe and the sort of uh way we do things, but happy to sort of expound on any of those things. 125 00:09:01,243 --> 00:09:07,158 And of course, this year we're co-locating it with our new event, which I know we'll talk about in a little bit as well. 126 00:09:07,158 --> 00:09:07,498 Yeah. 127 00:09:07,498 --> 00:09:11,311 Well, you know, it's interesting about treating everyone as equals. 128 00:09:11,311 --> 00:09:19,986 The reality is there's a significant amount of cross pollination between those worlds, especially law firm and vendor. 129 00:09:20,007 --> 00:09:27,812 I mean, you see people move from the law firm side to the vendor side, then back. 130 00:09:27,812 --> 00:09:30,474 You know, you have people who are long time vendors. 131 00:09:30,474 --> 00:09:31,955 Glenn Laforce is a good example. 132 00:09:31,955 --> 00:09:34,957 Um, you know, he was the global head of sales at Handshake. 133 00:09:34,957 --> 00:09:36,178 Now he's the 134 00:09:36,403 --> 00:09:43,868 He was, he was in a KM role at Sherman, now CKIO at Holland and Knight. 135 00:09:43,868 --> 00:09:54,996 So yeah, these, these, it's these uh constituencies are fluid and they, they, and they move back and forth. 136 00:09:55,217 --> 00:10:03,392 Kevin, you want to maybe give us a little overview of Legal Tech Connect and what, the goals and objectives are there. 137 00:10:04,654 --> 00:10:12,949 Yeah, yeah, as Patrick mentioned, The KM &I event is very much peer-to-peer, law firm peer-to-peer in terms of the content. 138 00:10:12,949 --> 00:10:19,963 And it's uh largely about what's happening within law firms and within KM and innovation departments. 139 00:10:19,963 --> 00:10:24,795 think an easy way to describe LegalTech Connect is it's kind of the inverse. 140 00:10:24,795 --> 00:10:26,006 It's kind of the external. 141 00:10:26,006 --> 00:10:32,709 It's looking at uh market forces, the regulatory environment, and of course, product innovation. 142 00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:33,666 So it's 143 00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:44,326 the spotlight is expressly on the product developers, the solution providers, uh their origin stories, what they're solving for. 144 00:10:44,326 --> 00:10:50,263 So I think it'll be a fascinating uh thread of discussion around what's driving innovation. 145 00:10:50,263 --> 00:11:01,538 And I think it kind of opens the aperture up a little bit to have a really dynamic and broad view of the market and kind of the market pressures kind of. 146 00:11:02,096 --> 00:11:05,387 hitting law firms from all angles really, in a competitive sense. 147 00:11:05,387 --> 00:11:13,749 um So it's really a broad view of emerging trends, the regulatory environment, and then again, that innovation theme on the development side. 148 00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:21,891 So I think it brings together cohorts that aren't normally typically in the same room at the same time. 149 00:11:22,032 --> 00:11:28,353 One of those being the investment community, which a tip of the hat to TLTF uh for tapping into that energy. 150 00:11:28,353 --> 00:11:30,576 And they've got one of... 151 00:11:30,576 --> 00:11:32,737 you know, the preeminent events in the industry. 152 00:11:32,737 --> 00:11:37,230 And we thought, you know what, that makes a lot of sense to open the door to that community as well. 153 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:41,212 So uh it should be a very lively couple of days. 154 00:11:41,513 --> 00:11:43,544 you know, you mentioned cross-pollination. 155 00:11:43,544 --> 00:11:50,988 I think that will be kind of the magic, uh particularly on the networking side, which will all be completely cross-pollinated, if you will. 156 00:11:51,277 --> 00:12:01,755 Yeah, I've been, um I didn't go the first year to TLTF, but I've been, they started around the same time you did um with KM &I, Patrick. 157 00:12:01,755 --> 00:12:04,182 was 2022. 158 00:12:04,182 --> 00:12:04,702 that's right. 159 00:12:04,702 --> 00:12:05,533 might have started. 160 00:12:05,533 --> 00:12:06,803 Are they in their fourth year? 161 00:12:06,803 --> 00:12:08,884 Is this their fourth year this coming? 162 00:12:09,565 --> 00:12:10,425 Yeah. 163 00:12:10,425 --> 00:12:13,616 Yeah, this is our third for Cam and I, so it must have been a year before. 164 00:12:13,616 --> 00:12:16,408 Although I think they started during the pandemic. 165 00:12:16,408 --> 00:12:17,502 I'm not sure. 166 00:12:17,502 --> 00:12:20,089 I only went for the first time last year. 167 00:12:20,089 --> 00:12:21,170 Okay, right, right. 168 00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:21,710 pandemic. 169 00:12:21,710 --> 00:12:25,829 think their first conference was in 2022 because it hit my radar late. 170 00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:32,850 I didn't make it to the first one, but I've been to the two since then and I'm going again this, this year. 171 00:12:32,850 --> 00:12:33,070 Yeah. 172 00:12:33,070 --> 00:12:34,290 And they do a great job. 173 00:12:34,290 --> 00:12:42,970 Um, it is, uh, it's an interesting mix of, you know, law firm stakeholders, investors, founders. 174 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:45,050 Um, they have some thought leaders. 175 00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:47,342 There were some academics there last year. 176 00:12:47,342 --> 00:12:51,442 as well, which again, interesting kind of mix. 177 00:12:52,302 --> 00:12:56,702 So is there, is this a cross access event? 178 00:12:56,702 --> 00:13:09,762 mean, do people from the buy a Cayman iTicket automatically get access to the LTC content or vice versa or those separate SKUs? 179 00:13:10,636 --> 00:13:12,987 Yeah, they're separate. 180 00:13:13,047 --> 00:13:15,249 Technically, they're separate conferences. 181 00:13:15,249 --> 00:13:18,609 I mean, not technically, actually, and technically, they are separate conferences. 182 00:13:18,609 --> 00:13:26,655 And by the way, you know, we were saying Legal Tech Connect, but Legal Tech Connect is the organization that Kevin and I founded. 183 00:13:26,655 --> 00:13:29,696 And the event is called Innovators and Investors. 184 00:13:29,696 --> 00:13:32,508 We just call it LTC for short because it's our first event. 185 00:13:32,508 --> 00:13:36,660 Of course, we'll have more events under the under the LTC umbrella. 186 00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:39,222 But the Innovators and Investors event. 187 00:13:39,222 --> 00:13:40,633 Yeah, it's a separate. 188 00:13:40,633 --> 00:13:43,705 conference, we found this beautiful space in New York City. 189 00:13:43,705 --> 00:13:48,509 It's called Ease Hospitality and it's right at it's on third Avenue at 40th Street. 190 00:13:48,749 --> 00:14:01,930 And, you know, a little bit sort of a opportunistic thing in some ways uh because I've been wanting to do additional events and been wanting to partner with Kevin for a long 191 00:14:01,930 --> 00:14:02,800 time. 192 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:08,074 And when we found this new venue, it's so big and beautiful. 193 00:14:08,074 --> 00:14:10,496 There's such great space there. 194 00:14:10,614 --> 00:14:12,545 We're definitely going to do KMNI there. 195 00:14:12,545 --> 00:14:16,337 And then we realized there's all this additional space. 196 00:14:16,337 --> 00:14:24,762 We might be able to do this co-located event and bring together these communities because there's so much overlap with them. 197 00:14:24,762 --> 00:14:34,067 So yes, they're separate conferences, but it's almost thinking about it as separate tracks of the same conference, if you will. 198 00:14:34,067 --> 00:14:36,508 But they are two separate tickets. 199 00:14:36,508 --> 00:14:39,554 So in the largest room, there'll be the 200 00:14:39,554 --> 00:14:43,235 the KMNI room holds about 200, 220 people. 201 00:14:43,235 --> 00:14:50,417 uh And then the second largest room will be the Legal Tech Connect uh content. 202 00:14:50,417 --> 00:14:53,438 There's another room that's gonna be sort of an overflow room. 203 00:14:54,059 --> 00:15:02,831 But those two events will have content in those rooms simultaneously ah and they are separate tickets. 204 00:15:02,831 --> 00:15:05,102 Now you can get crossover tickets if you want. 205 00:15:05,102 --> 00:15:05,774 think... 206 00:15:05,774 --> 00:15:15,654 We estimate that there'll be about 10 to 15 % of the total crowd in both events that want a crossover ticket because, you know, some people like me, right? 207 00:15:15,654 --> 00:15:24,394 I was a CKO, I'm also an investor, I do lots of different things and I think there's a good number of folks that have that diversity of interest. 208 00:15:24,554 --> 00:15:31,134 Plus there's quite frankly just a lot of great content and you know Ted, cause you're on one of these panels, you're moderating one of these panels. 209 00:15:31,134 --> 00:15:33,394 So I think there's gonna be great interest. 210 00:15:33,409 --> 00:15:36,861 In both events, the challenge with that, course, is physics. 211 00:15:36,861 --> 00:15:46,157 You can't be in two places at once, but some people will have those crossover tickets and want to pop in and out of the two sessions. 212 00:15:46,157 --> 00:15:58,486 But to Kevin's point, I think one of the best things about this is that all of the other activities, the networking, the breakfast, lunch, coffee breaks, networking parties, all 213 00:15:58,486 --> 00:16:02,378 of that stuff over the two days, I think it's about eight hours of networking. 214 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:04,821 is combined, right? 215 00:16:04,821 --> 00:16:12,634 So the content is simultaneously going on and then the networking is simultaneously going on to bring everybody together. 216 00:16:12,634 --> 00:16:19,397 So we're talking like 330 people or so um all networking together between and among themselves. 217 00:16:19,397 --> 00:16:22,228 So super excited about that aspect of it. 218 00:16:22,282 --> 00:16:28,769 Yeah, as far as the name goes, people are still going to call you LTC, the event LTC, just like they do Ilta. 219 00:16:28,769 --> 00:16:34,724 Like people don't a lot of times they don't say Ilta con I'm going to Ilta or they don't say TLTF summit. 220 00:16:34,724 --> 00:16:36,496 They say I'm going to TLTF. 221 00:16:36,616 --> 00:16:41,842 So it's just yeah, there's worse things that could happen. 222 00:16:41,842 --> 00:16:42,701 Yeah. 223 00:16:42,701 --> 00:16:43,534 Exactly. 224 00:16:43,534 --> 00:16:58,474 So capital startups, AI, regulatory change, what, you talked a little bit about it, but maybe you can drill into high level themes of the content in terms of how are you bringing 225 00:16:58,474 --> 00:16:59,994 all that together? 226 00:16:59,994 --> 00:17:03,334 Are there going to be some sessions that are investor focused? 227 00:17:03,754 --> 00:17:07,594 Are there some sessions that are going to be founder focused? 228 00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:11,434 Is there a lot of kind of blending in? 229 00:17:11,456 --> 00:17:13,920 on the agenda, what does that look like? 230 00:17:14,392 --> 00:17:15,602 Yeah, great question. 231 00:17:15,602 --> 00:17:23,444 uh I'll give you the short answer and then Kevin, if you want to expound on some of it. 232 00:17:23,444 --> 00:17:28,006 At LTC, there's basically three groupings, if you will, of content. 233 00:17:28,006 --> 00:17:33,367 The first grouping of content is for the investors and for the buyers. 234 00:17:33,367 --> 00:17:37,278 These are what we're calling solutions showcase stages, right? 235 00:17:37,278 --> 00:17:44,163 It's kind like a startup stage where uh startups and even some uh more mature companies 236 00:17:44,163 --> 00:17:47,185 get an opportunity to do a five minute pitch on stage, right? 237 00:17:47,185 --> 00:17:52,149 So telling the investors in the room and the buyers in the room what they're all about. 238 00:17:52,149 --> 00:17:55,532 Are they seeking funding for a new round? 239 00:17:55,532 --> 00:17:57,673 Are they seeking new customers? 240 00:17:57,673 --> 00:18:03,038 Do they just want to get their oh products and services out there in front of more people? 241 00:18:03,038 --> 00:18:08,023 So there'll be at least two stages, two solutions showcase stages. 242 00:18:08,023 --> 00:18:12,045 So that's one of the groups of content on that stage. 243 00:18:12,045 --> 00:18:14,246 The second group of content is 244 00:18:14,296 --> 00:18:17,838 Kind of what it's kind of advice to legal tech startups, right? 245 00:18:17,838 --> 00:18:24,442 There's sort of mentor panels and, and, um, founders journeys and these types of things. 246 00:18:24,442 --> 00:18:27,624 So we have folks like Haley Altman from Laterra, right? 247 00:18:27,624 --> 00:18:38,903 Who has, you know, her company docs that was acquired and then she was involved in lots of acquisitions and other folks like her, uh, Peter Oselin and others who are going to, uh, 248 00:18:38,903 --> 00:18:40,684 basically be, you know, 249 00:18:40,684 --> 00:18:42,325 temporary mentors to these. 250 00:18:42,325 --> 00:18:45,236 In fact, one of our panels is called the Mentors Panel. 251 00:18:45,457 --> 00:18:53,191 Advising legal tech startups, and there's a lot of them out there as we know, a lot of new ones, what it's all about to do this from soup to nuts, right? 252 00:18:53,191 --> 00:18:59,264 From founding to exit and give lots of great uh advice about that. 253 00:18:59,264 --> 00:19:06,819 And then the third grouping of content at Legal Tech Connect is, I would say it's just sort of general legal technology sessions. 254 00:19:06,819 --> 00:19:07,769 What's new in AI? 255 00:19:07,769 --> 00:19:09,346 uh 256 00:19:09,346 --> 00:19:14,172 what's going on, what's the latest, what's important, what needs to be on your radar, these types of things. 257 00:19:14,172 --> 00:19:18,038 uh So, and it's a nice balance of that type of content, I think. 258 00:19:18,038 --> 00:19:21,746 uh Happy to drill down into any of the areas. 259 00:19:21,746 --> 00:19:25,868 Kevin, I don't know if you want to expound on some of the more interesting sessions. 260 00:19:25,868 --> 00:19:27,720 uh Yeah. 261 00:19:28,126 --> 00:19:35,132 I think high level, think bringing the two events together kind of tells a broader story about what's happening in legal innovation. 262 00:19:35,132 --> 00:19:39,145 um I don't think it's really incremental, if that's the right word to use. 263 00:19:39,145 --> 00:19:46,742 I think there's market level shifts happening um that require more alignment across builders, buyers and funders. 264 00:19:46,742 --> 00:19:50,966 I think, you know, I think that's kind of the high level story. 265 00:19:50,966 --> 00:19:53,277 I think there's this gravitational pull. 266 00:19:53,277 --> 00:19:54,669 It's much wider, right? 267 00:19:54,669 --> 00:19:56,740 Investment capital flowing in. 268 00:19:56,827 --> 00:20:07,947 All of these startups that are solving, oftentimes very discreet uh challenges or exploring opportunities and shifting client expectations, that's certainly part of the 269 00:20:07,947 --> 00:20:08,838 story. 270 00:20:08,838 --> 00:20:10,309 We mentioned regulatory change. 271 00:20:10,309 --> 00:20:15,383 So all of these things are happening, uh impacting and reshaping this ecosystem. 272 00:20:15,383 --> 00:20:20,568 So I think from a high level, I think it does tell a really compelling story. 273 00:20:20,568 --> 00:20:23,276 uh 274 00:20:23,276 --> 00:20:27,229 again, the access piece and who will be in which room. 275 00:20:27,390 --> 00:20:32,083 As Patrick said, there are distinct physical limitations there. 276 00:20:32,083 --> 00:20:38,159 In fact, the Legal Tech Connect room is a bit smaller than the KM &I room. 277 00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:44,994 We're going to feel this out and see exactly where it's like water finding its level. 278 00:20:44,994 --> 00:20:51,350 I know there will be a lot of interest oh looking in both directions, but we hope to accommodate. 279 00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:51,834 uh 280 00:20:51,834 --> 00:20:53,395 those desires the best we can. 281 00:20:53,395 --> 00:20:56,336 But yeah, we're excited about this. 282 00:20:56,336 --> 00:21:12,582 think it's a very comprehensive look at market snapshot, uh which relative to the work I've done, it's a really, like I said, casting a very wide uh lens on the marketplace. 283 00:21:12,972 --> 00:21:23,848 You know, it's going to be, there are going to be some interesting conversations now um about, especially on the investor side and on the founder side, there is, I don't know 284 00:21:23,848 --> 00:21:41,018 anybody who disagrees with that we are frothy right now in terms of uh valuations, capital influx into the market, number of startups that are being stood up that maybe 285 00:21:41,923 --> 00:21:44,344 You know, don't have a complete vision. 286 00:21:44,344 --> 00:21:59,812 Um, and you know, it's driving interesting dynamics that are exciting and a little concerning at the same time, you know, cause I, we all know how the story ends. 287 00:21:59,952 --> 00:22:05,065 all three of us are old enough to have seen a few cycles, economic cycles in our day. 288 00:22:05,065 --> 00:22:11,862 And I think what, you know, this, where we're at today, I don't know if you guys would disagree. 289 00:22:11,862 --> 00:22:17,204 Where we're at today feels a lot like the dot com era. 290 00:22:17,265 --> 00:22:32,771 So, you know, in the late nineties, there was all of this money coming in to, you know, dot coms that sometimes had no revenue, sometimes had a fairly thrown together business 291 00:22:32,771 --> 00:22:35,513 plan, yet they were acquiring funding. 292 00:22:35,513 --> 00:22:38,674 And that ended in a big correction. 293 00:22:38,866 --> 00:22:43,007 Um, and I think we're, we're, we're, we're, we're headed in that direction as well. 294 00:22:43,007 --> 00:22:59,852 But what's, I think what is a parallel between then and now is the underlying assumptions that, you know, e-commerce was going to be a massive force and completely disrupt the 295 00:22:59,852 --> 00:23:01,612 retail economy. 296 00:23:01,892 --> 00:23:02,852 We're true. 297 00:23:02,852 --> 00:23:08,974 And just like with AI, you know, the transformational power. 298 00:23:09,216 --> 00:23:12,047 of AI is undeniable. 299 00:23:12,247 --> 00:23:23,200 But as irrational exuberance starts to gain traction, people think they can throw money in any direction and have a successful outcome. 300 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,391 And that's just not the case. 301 00:23:24,391 --> 00:23:27,952 um I'm um actually relieved. 302 00:23:27,952 --> 00:23:32,333 So InfoDash, for those that don't know, is an intranet extranet platform. 303 00:23:32,333 --> 00:23:35,104 And I consider us AI adjacent. 304 00:23:35,343 --> 00:23:43,183 You guys might not even really know this about us, but we have something called Integration Hub that we've had this product for years. 305 00:23:43,183 --> 00:23:44,083 We've never named it. 306 00:23:44,083 --> 00:23:55,503 We used to call it the Info-API, but it's essentially a middle tier that we deploy in a client's Azure tenant that has tentacles into all of their back office systems that is 307 00:23:55,503 --> 00:23:58,583 security trimmed and respects ethical wall boundaries. 308 00:23:59,343 --> 00:24:05,223 And what's interesting about that, we, to be perfectly honest, didn't see this coming. 309 00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:19,116 the need for this, but what it does is it enables law firms to tap into their line of business data using all of Microsoft's Lego blocks like Azure AI search, Azure open AI, 310 00:24:19,116 --> 00:24:22,057 co-pilot, power automate, power apps. 311 00:24:22,257 --> 00:24:28,759 It creates a, a mechanism for the, for them to tap into their data. 312 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,826 And I don't know how you guys see things in the future, but how I see them. 313 00:24:34,826 --> 00:24:44,713 is data, know, firms have historically differentiated themselves through brand that's largely been driven by people and outcomes. 314 00:24:44,713 --> 00:24:57,132 And that's still going to be very important, but there's a new component to the equation, which is what data do you have access to and how can you leverage it in your legal 315 00:24:57,132 --> 00:25:03,066 workflows to build better work product, to advise clients. 316 00:25:03,086 --> 00:25:08,848 Um, more effectively and we kind of, we're, AI adjacent, right? 317 00:25:08,848 --> 00:25:19,571 We're not, I'm, and I'm glad because I feel like when the train comes and like, I'm standing to the side, we'll, we will get impacted if there's a big correction, but not 318 00:25:19,571 --> 00:25:27,273 nearly, you know, all these companies that are, you know, thin wrappers on AI platforms. 319 00:25:27,273 --> 00:25:28,439 Um, I don't know. 320 00:25:28,439 --> 00:25:30,594 Do you guys see the market? 321 00:25:31,044 --> 00:25:35,135 as frothy as I do or do you have a different perspective? 322 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:38,159 think that's a tough one. 323 00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:44,581 think there are strong parallels to the dot com era and the AI era, if you will. 324 00:25:44,901 --> 00:25:53,043 But I think, and this is what popped into my mind, Ted, we've been talking about the unbundling of services for a long time in legal, right? 325 00:25:53,323 --> 00:26:05,286 And then you see these, what they're being described as these AI native law firms like Crosby and Covenant, if you're familiar with these, that do very specific things 326 00:26:05,866 --> 00:26:07,066 leveraging 327 00:26:07,118 --> 00:26:08,598 automation and AI. 328 00:26:08,598 --> 00:26:13,700 um And they almost look and have a look and feel of like a ALSP, right? 329 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:18,281 um But they're law firms doing legal work with lawyers. 330 00:26:18,281 --> 00:26:34,406 uh But again, I feel like it's part of that unbundling concept where you can leverage the tech to do discrete tasks really effectively, really efficiently to a different price 331 00:26:34,406 --> 00:26:35,146 point. 332 00:26:35,206 --> 00:26:42,151 I think there are some distinctions between where we are now uh relative to the dot com boom and bust. 333 00:26:42,612 --> 00:26:50,599 And clearly the dawn of the internet changed the business landscape from that point forward. 334 00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:55,563 uh AI is probably most certainly going to do the same thing. 335 00:26:55,563 --> 00:26:57,805 We're not sure at what speed and velocity. 336 00:26:57,805 --> 00:27:04,478 um do you see, particularly on the transactional side, AI 337 00:27:04,762 --> 00:27:13,452 furthering that unbundling of legal service delivery and kind of putting them in really specific buckets, if you will. 338 00:27:13,667 --> 00:27:15,668 Yeah, that's a great question. 339 00:27:15,668 --> 00:27:17,648 I think the answer is yes. 340 00:27:18,128 --> 00:27:29,652 know, due diligence is a great example of uh a piece of that value chain that is subject to a high degree, very high degree of automation. 341 00:27:29,652 --> 00:27:40,755 you know, something, tasks that took, you know, a room full of junior associates pouring through mountains of documents over weeks. 342 00:27:40,912 --> 00:27:46,052 of time can now be done in days through AI. 343 00:27:46,532 --> 00:28:02,852 So I think that we are absolutely going to see an unbundling and it may be kind of a decomposition and then a recomposition of, you know, the providers that like it doesn't, 344 00:28:02,852 --> 00:28:06,652 you know, especially on a transaction, it's unlikely that you're going to go. 345 00:28:06,947 --> 00:28:14,952 to one place for your due diligence and somewhere else to draft up your stock purchase agreements. 346 00:28:14,952 --> 00:28:26,061 um But I think that uh these big law firms that, especially in the transactional world, where pedigree is such an important aspect of the 347 00:28:26,061 --> 00:28:36,537 the whole process, like when you're on the other side of the table and you see, you know, Gunderson or Cooley or Wilson Sincini or Goodwin or, you know, one of these big reputable 348 00:28:36,537 --> 00:28:43,761 firms that have a ton of experience on the other side of the table, it changes your negotiation strategy, right? 349 00:28:43,761 --> 00:28:47,533 Um, versus somebody who's not well represented. 350 00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:50,845 Um, so that stuff is still going to matter. 351 00:28:50,845 --> 00:28:55,767 It's not like people are not going to go to one of these firms to get the work done. 352 00:28:55,801 --> 00:29:10,048 But I think these big firms are going to have to think very carefully about their process and figure out how to incorporate automation or they're gonna lose work to the firms that 353 00:29:10,048 --> 00:29:10,828 do. 354 00:29:11,189 --> 00:29:13,231 That's what seems to make sense to me. 355 00:29:14,042 --> 00:29:14,782 Yeah. 356 00:29:14,782 --> 00:29:17,162 I think there's a couple of things at play. 357 00:29:17,302 --> 00:29:28,682 First of all, your point about content and data being very important as opposed to, you know, also important, but as opposed to just resting on the laurels of the reputation and 358 00:29:28,682 --> 00:29:32,542 brand and pedigree of the firm and the lawyers who are there. 359 00:29:32,542 --> 00:29:34,302 I think that's true. 360 00:29:34,302 --> 00:29:37,262 Those things will continue to be important. 361 00:29:38,462 --> 00:29:41,761 Good lawyers are, you you need good lawyers to do good. 362 00:29:41,761 --> 00:29:44,453 legal work. 363 00:29:45,134 --> 00:29:51,859 But I think your point underscores the importance, quite frankly, of knowledge management. 364 00:29:51,859 --> 00:29:58,064 uh This is what we've been, you know, the bell we've been ringing for years and years and years. 365 00:29:58,064 --> 00:30:11,894 uh The firm, the firm, the, you know, firms, the firm has created content for years and years and years, millions of documents, you know, millions of pieces of content. 366 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:21,330 that is codified into documents, saved into some platform, DMS or other. 367 00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:30,190 And what has happened with, and I'll just call them modern technologies, because it's not all AI. 368 00:30:30,190 --> 00:30:37,250 We're calling all of this new stuff AI, and it's almost meaningless to use that term already. 369 00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:40,590 I think what most people mean by it is, 370 00:30:41,064 --> 00:30:43,005 modern technologies, right? 371 00:30:43,005 --> 00:30:45,435 Like search tools are not AI, right? 372 00:30:45,435 --> 00:30:49,867 uh Generative AI is a different type of AI than expert systems. 373 00:30:49,867 --> 00:30:55,118 So I think we need to be more precise in a lot of this stuff, but I'll get off that high horse for a second. 374 00:30:55,218 --> 00:31:08,822 The benefit of all of this, the awareness, the hype, whether it's the market hype or not, but the hype, the fact that, you know, AI is in every newscast out there, every, you know, 375 00:31:08,822 --> 00:31:09,612 every 376 00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:14,190 discussion about business now includes a discussion about AI. 377 00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:31,556 I think that helps those of us who are trying to promote knowledge management because it goes to the point that it's important that we leverage the firm's collective knowledge and 378 00:31:31,556 --> 00:31:33,436 wisdom and experience. 379 00:31:33,436 --> 00:31:40,258 And you cannot do that unless you're able to unearth it and access it and share it. 380 00:31:40,331 --> 00:31:43,112 and get it around to the others at the firm. 381 00:31:43,672 --> 00:31:46,273 There's so much oil, right? 382 00:31:46,273 --> 00:31:47,974 Data, the new oil. 383 00:31:48,213 --> 00:31:52,276 There's so much great information at all of these firms. 384 00:31:52,276 --> 00:31:57,768 It's just the accessibility of it has been a huge problem for many, many years. 385 00:31:57,768 --> 00:32:09,542 And to your point about your platform, Ted, the fact that you can tap into other systems and bring them into an interface that is useful and easy to access, 386 00:32:09,682 --> 00:32:12,744 and is uh intuitive. 387 00:32:12,984 --> 00:32:18,707 This is really where it's at because again, that content has always been there. 388 00:32:18,808 --> 00:32:29,474 And sometimes you have PSLs or practice support lawyers or knowledge management attorneys or whatever we're calling our folks nowadays, know, sort of manually do some of that work 389 00:32:29,474 --> 00:32:35,908 to, to, to rise it to that, raise it to the top, et cetera. 390 00:32:35,908 --> 00:32:36,332 But 391 00:32:36,332 --> 00:32:47,165 you know, tools like yours and others are really effective in surfacing that gold that has in many organizations been untapped for many, many years. 392 00:32:47,526 --> 00:33:00,460 so those, those organizations that focus on that and appreciate that and understand that they're sitting on a gold mine or a oil field or whatever analogy we want to use. 393 00:33:00,618 --> 00:33:08,545 and all they have to do is take the steps to expose it and make it accessible, they're going to win. 394 00:33:08,545 --> 00:33:21,035 um Whether that's AI or whether that's just automation or whether that's just good business practices or processes and getting the right people in the right spots, this is 395 00:33:21,035 --> 00:33:23,097 what I love about what's going on now. 396 00:33:23,097 --> 00:33:29,706 Whether or not we're in a bubble, I have some thoughts about that too, but I'm thankful that this is 397 00:33:29,706 --> 00:33:35,929 shining a light on the, as I like to say, old problems, new tools, right? 398 00:33:36,009 --> 00:33:37,849 It's the same problems, right? 399 00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:39,952 It's accessibility and everything else. 400 00:33:39,952 --> 00:33:45,975 We just have more powerful tools now that enable us to get that work done. 401 00:33:45,975 --> 00:33:54,459 So I'm excited about it, even if it might be a financial bubble or over investment bubble or these types of things. 402 00:33:54,459 --> 00:33:59,732 There are going to be some of these companies that don't survive, but many will, and I think many will do well. 403 00:34:00,442 --> 00:34:04,392 You know, no, no, go ahead, Kevin. 404 00:34:04,624 --> 00:34:09,945 I was just gonna say a lot of what Patrick was alluding to strikes me as information architecture. 405 00:34:10,286 --> 00:34:18,429 And uh arguably perhaps law firms were a little late to the game in terms of focusing on information architecture. 406 00:34:18,529 --> 00:34:20,850 I think AI clearly lit that fire. 407 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:28,253 ah But there were a number of firms uh building toward this moment for a decade or more. 408 00:34:28,253 --> 00:34:30,314 um But I think that's. 409 00:34:30,564 --> 00:34:39,785 That's really the challenge on the data side is having systems that can speak to one another and findability, usability, right? 410 00:34:39,906 --> 00:34:44,531 That's IA before AI, if you will. 411 00:34:45,954 --> 00:34:46,754 Yeah. 412 00:34:46,861 --> 00:34:53,435 know, and we are positioned in an interesting spot on that kind of data landscape. 413 00:34:53,435 --> 00:34:58,388 know, InfoDash, the name comes from, we're DoorDash for your data. 414 00:34:58,749 --> 00:35:03,012 And, you know, we kind of deliver it when you want, where you want. 415 00:35:03,012 --> 00:35:13,219 We've chosen intranets and extranets as kind of the single pane of glass to view these disparate data sources in a coherent and consolidated way. 416 00:35:13,293 --> 00:35:22,272 But the reality is that that data orchestration layer has a lot of value in the in the AI scenario too. 417 00:35:22,353 --> 00:35:23,704 So let me ask you guys a question. 418 00:35:23,704 --> 00:35:28,469 Do you do you guys know the average length of a bull market? 419 00:35:32,258 --> 00:35:33,339 not sure. 420 00:35:34,118 --> 00:35:35,376 10 years? 421 00:35:35,376 --> 00:35:41,916 five, and that's the optimistic, that is the optimistic, there's lots of different ways to measure. 422 00:35:42,756 --> 00:35:45,616 So yeah, five is the average. 423 00:35:46,056 --> 00:35:50,136 Do you know the longest bull market to ever run? 424 00:35:50,136 --> 00:35:51,916 How long it was and when? 425 00:35:54,756 --> 00:35:57,962 You're in it, you're in it, yeah. 426 00:35:57,962 --> 00:35:59,088 That'd be mine. 427 00:35:59,088 --> 00:36:03,488 Yeah, so tend to well, and there's also a debate about this as well. 428 00:36:04,068 --> 00:36:21,428 So 2010 to 2022 during COVID, hard to say that the 30 or 40 % market drop in COVID is still in scope for the bull market definition, but we so quickly recovered from that. 429 00:36:21,428 --> 00:36:23,208 That wasn't a normal cycle. 430 00:36:23,208 --> 00:36:28,110 So I consider that we are still in the 2010 bull market 15 years. 431 00:36:28,110 --> 00:36:28,955 Hmm. 432 00:36:28,955 --> 00:36:36,179 Um, you know, because essentially it's, is, and what it tells you is that we're overdue. 433 00:36:36,319 --> 00:36:38,871 We're overdue for correction. 434 00:36:38,871 --> 00:36:44,163 these things are natural cycles, like, you know, kind of like the Gartner hype cycle. 435 00:36:44,324 --> 00:36:51,267 And, um, you know, from an investment perspective, there's so much, I keep a spreadsheet of VCs that reach out to us. 436 00:36:51,267 --> 00:36:57,975 In fact, I shared it with you, um, that it it's longer than the last time I sent it to you a week ago. 437 00:36:57,975 --> 00:37:07,127 Like I get hit up just so we started recording the spreadsheet maybe six weeks before Ilta. 438 00:37:07,127 --> 00:37:10,939 So it's been three months tops, maybe less. 439 00:37:10,939 --> 00:37:14,039 And I've got 26 VCs in there. 440 00:37:14,179 --> 00:37:15,860 When you have that number. 441 00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:21,351 So these I'm looking at signals in the market like, all right, what signals can we look at to tell us we're in a bubble? 442 00:37:21,351 --> 00:37:27,143 All right, we've got capital out there chasing opportunities, uber aggressively. 443 00:37:27,143 --> 00:37:28,193 We've got 444 00:37:28,193 --> 00:37:34,686 Meta spending 250 million dollars as signing bonus bonuses to hire resources. 445 00:37:34,686 --> 00:37:50,743 We've got 100x or sometimes, you know, valuations for companies that don't even have revenue or a bit even sometimes it's a public um business plan as to what they're going to 446 00:37:50,743 --> 00:37:51,173 do. 447 00:37:51,173 --> 00:37:55,375 um And then, you know, it almost feels like we're heading 448 00:37:55,408 --> 00:37:58,921 You know, there's some parallels to the NFT market back in the day. 449 00:37:58,921 --> 00:38:00,552 Remember the board apes? 450 00:38:02,634 --> 00:38:06,857 and what crazy numbers, like hundreds of thousands of dollars for these NFTs. 451 00:38:06,857 --> 00:38:14,043 Now the difference is that was a bunch of nonsense and there were solving real world business problems. 452 00:38:14,043 --> 00:38:19,697 There's real applications of the blockchain, but NFTs, I don't know your feelings on them. 453 00:38:19,697 --> 00:38:24,559 Uh, there was so much, there was more hype than really fundamental value there. 454 00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:36,559 I think that's different with this and it's going to be interesting to see the perspectives of, you know, the investor community and, um, you know, your founder 455 00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:45,819 community that are, you you have to make decisions as a founder of a startup, like, Hey, do I accept this loft evaluation that I can get a big amount of money for a little bit of 456 00:38:45,819 --> 00:38:46,159 dilution? 457 00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:47,839 That's very attractive. 458 00:38:47,879 --> 00:38:54,399 The debt, the downside of that is if you don't deliver on expectations because maybe we have some turbulence. 459 00:38:54,615 --> 00:39:02,300 or the market is over saturated and you can't deliver on expectations, you're going to have a down round, which is very, very bad. 460 00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:11,247 There's all sorts of provisions that are tied to that money that you accepted that have really bad consequences for you as a founder when that happens. 461 00:39:11,247 --> 00:39:21,684 So you guys bringing this audience together right now, I think is super interesting because I can't wait to just read the room and have some side conversations and you know, 462 00:39:21,684 --> 00:39:23,811 from founders and from investors like 463 00:39:23,811 --> 00:39:25,233 Hey, how are you guys thinking about this? 464 00:39:25,233 --> 00:39:32,224 Like you're coming in at 12, 14 X revenue on a startup that's in a crowded space and lots of uncertainty. 465 00:39:32,224 --> 00:39:39,425 Um, but I, I, I would imagine Patrick, that's the goal is to like have these conversations. 466 00:39:39,939 --> 00:39:41,240 Yeah, absolutely. 467 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:41,730 Absolutely. 468 00:39:41,730 --> 00:39:46,461 And to your point, it's going to be such a nice mix of folks in the room, right? 469 00:39:46,461 --> 00:39:56,245 The investors who are, you know, trying to get a piece of these legal tech companies, the legal tech companies that are, you know, trying to figure it all out. 470 00:39:56,245 --> 00:39:56,665 Right. 471 00:39:56,665 --> 00:40:04,468 And that's why I love that we have a lot of these experienced folks who have been through it and could give those legal tech companies some advice. 472 00:40:04,468 --> 00:40:06,549 And then the buyers in the room as well. 473 00:40:06,549 --> 00:40:08,599 And, you know, I 474 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:25,260 I'm kind of glad I'm not at a law firm anymore because, ah you know, trying to schedule, hear this among my friends who are former peers in positions that I used to occupy, just 475 00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:31,563 trying to keep up with the vendors and see the demos and not miss anything. 476 00:40:31,563 --> 00:40:35,918 And then of course, it's compounded by the fact that the 477 00:40:35,918 --> 00:40:42,180 partners at the firm are seeing this stuff in regular sort of the course of their day. 478 00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:47,121 Sometimes clients come to them and say, hey, would you take a look at our stuff? 479 00:40:47,121 --> 00:40:58,424 But now you've got the additional, this used to be a little bit of a problem, but a lot more these partners are coming to the KM and innovation folks and saying, have we looked 480 00:40:58,424 --> 00:40:59,364 at this tool? 481 00:40:59,364 --> 00:41:00,475 Have we looked at that tool? 482 00:41:00,475 --> 00:41:02,195 And if it happens once in a while, it's fine. 483 00:41:02,195 --> 00:41:05,302 And sometimes you learn about something new, but 484 00:41:05,302 --> 00:41:13,869 what I'm hearing is it's happening multiple times a week from multiple partners and it just adds and you can't say, know, well, we're not going look at that one. 485 00:41:13,869 --> 00:41:21,996 You know, you say, yes, we'll absolutely add it to the list and we'll get back to you and give you our assessment. 486 00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:30,703 But, you know, some firms have full time uh AI assessors in terms of like assessing tool, new tools. 487 00:41:30,963 --> 00:41:34,516 And that's just a job that never existed. 488 00:41:34,567 --> 00:41:35,468 when I was doing it. 489 00:41:35,468 --> 00:41:41,973 um So yeah, it's hard on everybody, but there's a lot of opportunities to your point as well. 490 00:41:41,973 --> 00:41:52,442 And I think there's gonna be some big winners and I think there's gonna be a lot that just sort of fall off and try something else, but it'll be interesting. 491 00:41:52,442 --> 00:41:56,425 But to your point earlier, I think we've been through this as well, even within legal, right? 492 00:41:56,425 --> 00:41:58,827 Think about the early e-discovery days, right? 493 00:41:58,827 --> 00:42:03,246 In the early 2000s, there were so many companies trying to get 494 00:42:03,246 --> 00:42:06,229 piece of that action, because it was so lucrative. 495 00:42:06,229 --> 00:42:11,994 And that market has sort of uh consolidated and settled down. 496 00:42:11,994 --> 00:42:16,468 And there's some leaders, and there's some niche players as well. 497 00:42:16,468 --> 00:42:20,722 I suspect that'll happen uh with legal AI. 498 00:42:20,722 --> 00:42:23,146 uh And that's a good thing. 499 00:42:23,146 --> 00:42:25,546 I don't think this is sustainable. 500 00:42:25,546 --> 00:42:29,740 I don't think anybody wants it to continue like it is now. 501 00:42:30,466 --> 00:42:40,826 I think everybody wants it to calm down a little bit and let the, you know, the best stuff rise to the top and let the mediocrity, you know, fade away. 502 00:42:40,826 --> 00:42:42,342 I think that's a good thing. 503 00:42:42,342 --> 00:42:44,742 Do you actually see things calming down? 504 00:42:44,742 --> 00:42:49,462 Maybe from a new product entrant perspective, things will calm down. 505 00:42:49,462 --> 00:42:56,382 But in terms of implications on a law firm business model, I don't see that calming down anytime soon. 506 00:42:56,682 --> 00:42:59,221 I'd see that getting more complicated. 507 00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:02,042 I think we're just at the front end of that personally. 508 00:43:02,211 --> 00:43:09,838 Well, with money pushing so aggressively into the space, it's going to continue until that dries up. 509 00:43:09,838 --> 00:43:14,282 Once the capital dries up, there will be less fuel. 510 00:43:14,282 --> 00:43:20,387 There'll be less dry powder for these startups to leverage, to create their wares. 511 00:43:20,387 --> 00:43:24,041 um mean, look at the Harvey situation. 512 00:43:24,041 --> 00:43:27,023 So Harvey raised, I think they did two rounds. 513 00:43:27,023 --> 00:43:29,165 I don't remember which rounds they were. 514 00:43:29,171 --> 00:43:35,317 One was at a $3 billion valuation and three or four months later, it was at a $5 billion valuation. 515 00:43:35,378 --> 00:43:36,459 Now, okay. 516 00:43:36,459 --> 00:43:37,760 You might say, great. 517 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:44,747 If you were early in on Harvey, man, I, know, and no shade to Harvey, like they're doing great. 518 00:43:44,747 --> 00:43:52,112 Um, Ligora is doing great, but if I'm an investor, I'm looking at that and going, I don't want any. 519 00:43:52,112 --> 00:43:52,912 piece of that. 520 00:43:52,912 --> 00:44:03,486 Like don't want to go anywhere near that because it's just the volatility like having such a meteoric rise creates risk. 521 00:44:03,486 --> 00:44:11,630 You know how much of um and this isn't specific to Harvey but just in general with startups like how much of your revenue is vibe revenue right? 522 00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:20,303 People trying out maybe you keep doing paid POCs and what sort of churn are you going to experience once things stabilize? 523 00:44:20,525 --> 00:44:29,461 That those are really important questions and you know, startup valuations are driven by on revenue, multiples of revenue. 524 00:44:29,461 --> 00:44:39,017 And it's like your company is being valued based on this revenue that, is probably a good significant chunk of it's going to churn when things stabilize. 525 00:44:39,017 --> 00:44:45,911 So that, whole situation makes me nervous, just as a player in the space, like it's getting risky. 526 00:44:46,892 --> 00:44:47,983 Yeah, for sure. 527 00:44:47,983 --> 00:44:59,139 And you know, we've always said even, even the largest law firms are relatively small businesses and those who, you know, cater to them, you could do very, very well, of 528 00:44:59,139 --> 00:45:06,173 course, um, being a focused on legal tech or whatever niche you might be focused on. 529 00:45:06,173 --> 00:45:16,094 But when you're talking really large numbers, when you're talking multiple billions, these are the types of numbers that, sort of 530 00:45:16,094 --> 00:45:23,668 larger, uh broader, uh non-niche companies usually go for, right? 531 00:45:23,668 --> 00:45:36,375 You know, if you're selling to Walmart or, you know, Walmart's the biggest, it's maybe, maybe not a great example, but if you're selling to, you know, IBM, Oracle, selling to 532 00:45:36,375 --> 00:45:39,787 Apple, these companies have hundreds of thousands of employees. 533 00:45:39,787 --> 00:45:41,548 The largest law firm has what? 534 00:45:41,548 --> 00:45:44,019 I don't know, 14,000 employees, something like that. 535 00:45:44,019 --> 00:45:45,231 And then it drops off 536 00:45:45,231 --> 00:45:46,392 pretty quickly from there. 537 00:45:46,392 --> 00:45:51,075 uh So even large law firms are relatively small businesses. 538 00:45:51,075 --> 00:46:00,000 So if you're selling into the legal world, into law firms, there's only so many seats you can sell to. 539 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,364 And of course, some smart companies have broadened their targets. 540 00:46:05,364 --> 00:46:09,326 So uh outside of legal, you expand to 541 00:46:09,738 --> 00:46:12,829 more generally professional services that do similar work. 542 00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:19,041 And then there's more TAM, more total addressable market there for you to target, which is smart, of course. 543 00:46:19,041 --> 00:46:32,725 um But yeah, I think there's some delusion in terms of uh how big can we get, especially if you're sort of very niche, right? 544 00:46:32,725 --> 00:46:36,456 uh But it's interesting to see. 545 00:46:36,456 --> 00:46:38,346 And what I love about 546 00:46:38,562 --> 00:46:46,921 today is, you know, there's, think more than ever, people are really trying to figure out how to do it better, right? 547 00:46:46,921 --> 00:46:48,157 And that's what we're all about, right? 548 00:46:48,157 --> 00:46:49,514 What we've always been all about. 549 00:46:49,514 --> 00:46:51,817 How can we do this better, stronger, faster? 550 00:46:51,817 --> 00:46:57,964 And I think there's a lot of interesting, uh smart people trying to accomplish those goals. 551 00:46:57,964 --> 00:46:59,427 So I'm excited about that. 552 00:46:59,427 --> 00:47:09,776 Yeah, well, I'm going to be um moderating your keynote panel at the Legal Tech Connect conference. 553 00:47:09,776 --> 00:47:13,519 We're sponsors and we're going, we have a demo room. 554 00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,313 I can't remember which day it is, but we have a demo room one day at KMNI. 555 00:47:17,313 --> 00:47:22,187 We're going to be showing our new extranet platform, which is a high key replacement. 556 00:47:22,248 --> 00:47:26,177 We're really bullish about our opportunity in that space. 557 00:47:26,177 --> 00:47:31,953 Nothing has really changed in the legal extranet space in honestly more than 10 years. 558 00:47:31,953 --> 00:47:46,419 um And we are really doing it differently by again enabling the firms to surface data and um make it client facing in some really interesting ways and then a whole bunch of client 559 00:47:46,419 --> 00:47:47,950 facing AI stuff. 560 00:47:48,324 --> 00:47:52,786 For those that come, we'll be showing that solution off. 561 00:47:52,786 --> 00:47:54,717 Kevin, how do people find out more? 562 00:47:54,717 --> 00:47:56,448 Because we're wrapping up here. 563 00:47:56,948 --> 00:48:03,371 Before we do, I want you guys to tell people how to find out more about LTC and the KM &I Summit. 564 00:48:04,964 --> 00:48:08,677 Yeah, well, we've got uh obviously a landing page for each. 565 00:48:08,677 --> 00:48:10,419 uh What is it? 566 00:48:10,419 --> 00:48:18,986 KMNIforlegal.com, uh which will provide links to LegalTechConnect, which LegalTechConnect.com. 567 00:48:18,986 --> 00:48:23,430 uh There's information about both events uh on both websites. 568 00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:25,572 uh So check it out. 569 00:48:25,572 --> 00:48:32,228 We've just recently expanded what we've got coming into shape with respect to the agenda. 570 00:48:32,758 --> 00:48:37,641 and the speakers and the solutions showcase stage that continues to grow. 571 00:48:37,641 --> 00:48:39,412 We've just added a third segment. 572 00:48:39,412 --> 00:48:50,889 So there will be a lot of buzz, a lot of energy in a beautiful space um in October in New York, which tends to be a great time uh to spend some time in New York City. 573 00:48:50,889 --> 00:48:52,910 So it should be a lot of fun. 574 00:48:52,910 --> 00:48:55,012 uh We're excited about it. 575 00:48:55,012 --> 00:48:58,874 So appreciate you letting us talk about it and share some details, Ted. 576 00:48:58,874 --> 00:48:59,323 Thank you. 577 00:48:59,323 --> 00:48:59,863 absolutely. 578 00:48:59,863 --> 00:49:01,783 And I'll give my stamp of approval. 579 00:49:01,783 --> 00:49:03,403 I go to a lot of conferences. 580 00:49:03,403 --> 00:49:09,863 I think this year we're doing 14 and I, and I, I do 12 of them. 581 00:49:09,863 --> 00:49:22,263 So I'm not doing, I didn't do, there was a TLTF and P P WC event in London and I let somebody else make that transatlantic trip and then legal geek I'm missing as well. 582 00:49:22,263 --> 00:49:28,023 Matt, uh, yes, a bitch or you guys know, and Adam young are, um, are heading over there. 583 00:49:28,045 --> 00:49:30,437 That transatlantic travel is rough. 584 00:49:30,437 --> 00:49:36,129 Um, you know, doing a red, so I'll let the younger guys with more hair do. 585 00:49:36,129 --> 00:49:38,978 say you're getting too old for that stuff. 586 00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:40,701 No doubt, no doubt. 587 00:49:40,701 --> 00:49:42,802 um Well, I can vouch. 588 00:49:42,802 --> 00:49:45,983 I do a lot of events and I can vouch for Cam and I. 589 00:49:45,983 --> 00:49:47,003 It is fantastic. 590 00:49:47,003 --> 00:49:48,934 You guys, top notch food. 591 00:49:48,934 --> 00:49:51,245 It's a really nice space. 592 00:49:51,385 --> 00:49:55,587 It uh is a very class act. 593 00:49:55,587 --> 00:50:02,430 um And I've seen the agenda for LTC and the content looks incredible. 594 00:50:02,430 --> 00:50:04,831 So I'm really excited about that. 595 00:50:04,831 --> 00:50:05,651 So. 596 00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:12,547 Thank you guys for spending a few minutes with me today and I'm going to see you person in about eight weeks. 597 00:50:13,328 --> 00:50:13,873 Sounds great. 598 00:50:13,873 --> 00:50:14,585 Thank you, Ted. 599 00:50:14,585 --> 00:50:14,997 you, Ted. 600 00:50:14,997 --> 00:50:15,731 Thanks for having us. 601 00:50:15,731 --> 00:50:16,735 We appreciate it. 602 00:50:16,735 --> 00:50:17,622 Absolutely. 603 00:50:17,622 --> 00:50:18,175 All right. 604 00:50:18,175 --> 00:50:19,032 Take care. 605 00:50:19,032 --> 00:50:19,995 See you soon. 606 00:50:19,995 --> 00:50:20,346 too. 607 00:50:20,346 --> 00:50:21,326 Thank you. -->